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Kurage Crisis Winner?

Discussion in 'OOC' started by Kiwi Steve, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Sergej Faehrlich

    Sergej Faehrlich Well-Known Member
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    something like that...giving people a certain timeframe or their "empty reports" will get deleted automatically. Or cacluculating things on a weekly basis, just before the wave of reports drop in. Doesn't have to be too restrictive, to give people a chance to fix their reports, but leaving obviously lacking reports up for the whole campaign distorts results heavily. It might as well help more to give immediate upvotes if there is a fine report...that might be even more productive as high quality reports would have an impact right from the start.

    Of course that would mean that the required manpower could be immense...and the constant workload would be high. Still I guess that would reduce some of the problems with this campaign format...which I enjoyed nontheless.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The "overall winner" thing was disingenuous. The points are made up and don't matter. They got their intended story result (i.e. JSA stealing part of Dawn), the rest is just fluffy stuff to make people feel good.

    CB, for some reason, doesn't understand that a game where the rules aren't explained ahead of time, and things aren't fair between the various actors, isn't fun. They should explain their scoring system, explain their batrep rating system, and make something where the different factions are on the same footing.
     
    #22 Hecaton, Sep 10, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    This has been rebutted before with a single "if the rules are provided, people will attempt to game the system with more chances of success than without having those rules"...

    I think there should be a bare minimum, but I doubt CB is devoting any time at this moment to Kurage, or at least I hope they are having a second look at the ITS10 missions and how Xenotech kills Fireteams...
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  4. deep-green-x

    deep-green-x Well-Known Member

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    I assume you have some evidence to back up this claim and that it’s better than your own personal opinions about BOW and the campaign system?
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Unsuccessfully, in my opinion. You could apply the same logic to Infinity itself... it's still a bad argument.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The fact that that they vacillate between using stats per capita and absolute numbers without warning, using them to justify things like "most honorable faction" and up to and including "absolute winner," without saying what they're doing. If they aren't explaining the rules of the game, it's very hard to trust them - it comes off like they want to reserve the right to alter outcomes as they see fit.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    So no, no evidence...
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'd figure that people who designed games for a living would understand that telling people the rules of the game is a good starting point, and a game where you don't know the rules and may or may not have a fair chance at winning isn't typically fun. That's pretty basic stuff. Why would they want to circumvent this?

    Strictly speaking, my "evidence" is that decisions made in these campaigns (like the destruction of the Don Peyote) have little or no bearing on how the campaign actually plays out. Calling Ariadnan players' decision to attack the PanO base in segment 2 of Kurage an "excuse" is another example of this.
     
    #28 Hecaton, Sep 13, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You haven't listened to a word anyone has said, have you?

    Apart from a long history of that not working for other companies (notably a bunch of GW campaigns), that's basically how the first BoW campaign was run, and there were players openly boasting about using the info to game the system.
     
  10. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I think personally, an overall winner award is not in keeping with the Infinity theme. Haqqislam, really had no goal. We had a prospecting site, we had no reason to attack anyone, and were given no real objective. We held our prospecting site, and then Ariadna won because their objective WAS offensive. Nomads held their Arachne net nodes, victory for them too.

    Overall winner just doesn't fit. It breeds a mindset of our faction must win and points matter, everything else doesnt, but really it just goes to the faction that can list the most reports and has the numbers to back it up , ala Pano in Wotan, and Ariadna in Kurage. The problem is they want to create awards based purely on available data to be completely fair and impartial, but this feels very cold and distant to the player base. The Haqq community does feel VERY slighted we were given a nod at oh yea, Haqq was Haqq, but really we saved Nomads butts in Kommstadt, and KEPT OUR WORD about giving back their territory successfully. What other faction would voluntarily give back territory? We then got dinged on this for success because "lost territory". This hurt the HHC a LOT. This was a whole conversation on Saturday after GenCon we had each other.

    We did not lose territory, we were fulfilling an agreement with our in universe allies. This should be rewarded, not punished. We worked closely with many, trying to provide aid where we could, trying to be "The Most Honorable Faction" by our own merits and actions. Unfortunately, it had nothing to do with actions and everything to do with numbers. We had more new players and a difficult army to pick up and play, as such battle reports were thrown away and we lost that option. Pure numbers, not actions speak in these campaign. While this does mean its completely fair, it feels very disingenuous.
     
  11. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    As one of the folk that came up with the plan, I think I have to admit that whilst it was a conscious decision to sacrifice the Tower to undermine PanO, take them out of the running and prevent their hat-trick It does look like an excuse if you only learn about it after the fact, especially given how close the result at the tower turned out to be...
     
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  12. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    I think this recognition will come once Gutier creates the story. You did not get an award, but CB and the community has seen the move. Having your own objective as a faction is a fun thing to booth (We had project Butan, last year, on the Ariadnan side).

    But the stance of Haq Islam in this campaign is a choice by the faction. If you want to score awards, which we know will be given for the past three campaigns, then you have to make moves to get them. A neutral, passive posture does not give you these awards. But you have a reputation that the Haq Islam wants to keep up of being diplomatic and peaceful. That is what Haq Islam has chosen to achieve.

    So I think it is only fair that Haq Islam gets no award. Cause Haq Islam did not go in on a competitive level or to score in a way that gives you an award. but I do think there must be a fluff recognition, cause you guys choose to do things that reflects what Haq Islam is in the Infinity Universe.

    I would love to see the next Campaign to be on Bourak, on a forgotten Island or something. Just to give the Haq Islam a reason to go on the offensive.
     
  13. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Sry, but what is going wrong with you? I've red both post from you to the campaign today and I really ask myself, if you have a empathy?
    In one you complain, that you as heavy are attacked (called cheater) by the not winning people. Surprise! Surprise! Heavy hitter can be frustrating for player who can't play so many games.
    And now you step on the opinion of players, who would like an less victory count orientated campaign.
    I red over your comment about "how trustworthy" Ariadna is, but these two comments had been to much for me.
     
  14. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    I think you missunderstood what i meant or my text does not reflect well what I mean.

    If you go for a story driven approach, your reward should be in the story: so I hope for Haq that Guttier writes about their move. Which was a cool move!

    But to win the awards: highest points, most zones, etc. The last campaigns have shown you have to score on stats. Haq Islam choose to stay diplomatic and their results reflect that. So I think that there reward should be reflected in the fluff.

    Although I must admit that going for the awards is a bit of guess work. Ariadna went for taking panos crown during kurage and as Ariadnan HQ had een inkling that flipping zones meant points as that behaviour landed us "most dominating" during Wotan. Which did not get mentioned in the wotan fluff FYI. So you could ask Yourself what is better in the end: a award or a mention in the Infinity story.

    So Haq Islam might get the better deal? (Pun intended)
     
    #34 Cabaray, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  15. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    @Ben Kenobi, you mentioned empathy, and how it's frustrating to see someone else able to put in more games, but consider how frustrating it is to travel the length and breadth of your country(okay @Cabaray lives in the Netherlands so its only about 10km wide in some places...)playing games only for people to complain that you won.

    There are huge areas of the 'trust' part of the process here that we can't discuss without effectively naming people, so it's probably best that we don't bring it up again.
     
    Cabaray likes this.
  16. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    @cazboab Hey, that one is under the belt! It is at least 25 kilometers wide if you maesure from the taint ;-)




    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G930F met Tapatalk
     
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  17. Gargs454

    Gargs454 Member

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    He probably meant miles. ;)
     
  18. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's not ok to blame other people for cheating and therefore you got me with my own arguments.
    And if it would be the only post I mentioned, I would be terrible wrong.
     
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  19. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    That's presumably the case. Without pronouncing there can be easily misunderstandings. :beers: