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Krit “the Crit” Kokram

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by yoink101, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    #3 for me
     
  2. smog

    smog Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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  3. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to fit KRam into a vanilla tournament list for unmasking, frostbyte and rescue and he's just too expensive and just ended up cpromising the rest if the list being able to do what it needed.
     
  4. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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  5. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Played a little 3-round tournament with some friends today. Missions were Hunting party, Unmasking and supplies with spec ops extra (they're training for the interplanetario) and I used the following lists:

    Kritical Hit - Hunting Party
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    KOKRAM FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Chain-colt, E/Mauler / 2 Heavy Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYǑNG MULTI Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 31)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    ZHANSHI (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Engineer, Minelayer, Veteran L1) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges, Stun Pistol. (0 | 12)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Kritical Hit - Supplies/Unmasking
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    KOKRAM FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Chain-colt, E/Mauler / 2 Heavy Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    ZHANSHI (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (BS:12, Doctor, Veteran L1, Minelayer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I ended up taking second place with 2 major victory and 1 defeat: 7-0 VS Tunguska on Hunting Party / 0-10 VS TAK on Unmasking / 8-0 VS Pano Vanilla on Supplies.

    Overall both lists performed well, though I was rather lucky on my 2 victories; First game vs tunguska my fireteam endured an absurd amount of bullying from heckler, kriza, hollow-men and mary problem without flinching, and last game vs pano his dices were against him and the haidao pretty much won the game on its own.
    The crushing defeat against kazak could have most definitely been avoided with better play on my parts though; I got my ass handed to me by antipodes and a Line Kazak/Vet Kazak/Frontovik team but my zhencha could have limited the onslaught using his mines and himself as a roadblock if only I hadn't deploy him on the wrong flank...
     
    #85 Sedral, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
    Paegis likes this.
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    So did Krit actually do anything for you? Putting aside Hunting Party specifics because it's a badly designed mission with major balance issues at the moment when I look at your Supplies list all I can see is drop Krit and put the KHD Haidao in because it both saves you a tonne of points and then insulates you against certain problems, like Mary Problems which you mention bullied your link.

    With the points saved if you juggle stuff you can pretty easily stick in a Gongcheng with a bot, which is going to support your stuff better anyway with greater board presence.
     
  7. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Hunting party vs Tunguska: I used his E/maulers to secure my flank while I pushed forward, keeping Mary Problem at bay until the last turn. I had pushed so far at this point they were no longer relevant so she rushed me with her zapper, but my zuyongs didn't care one bit and just dodged everything. Krit also E/Med the kriza Lt and 2 hollow-men with his E/mitter, which was nice. Solid performance, even if we put aside mission specific.

    Unmasking vs TAK: Krit pushed a button, dropped an E/mauler near a console, repaired a zuyong I threw at an E/mauler (I'm much more willing to take that kind of risks when the engineer is litteraly 1 order away) and was then quickly dispatched by a frontovik's T2 rifle. But honestly this game was just one giant fuck up on my part. I had first turn but focused way too much on doing the mission and not enough on preparing myself for the antipode/irmandinhos onslaught. My haidao was locking down the left flank but had no line of sight to the right one, so I should've just put the zhencha on the right with Krit's team, together they would've made the place a bloody WW1 minefield.

    Supplies: Not much to say here. I used most of my orders first turn to grab a supply with the zhencha and retreat to safety, and just spent a few orders on the Haris to drop an E/mauler and set-up AROs to protect the zhencha. But I positionned krit poorly and he took a teuton spitfire in the face. Hard to do anything when you're full of bullets.


    Not a stellar performance across the day but I really appreciated the E/mauler, even though I didn't use them nearly as much as i should've. I just can't stress enough how good mines in fireteams are, especially for a sectorial like IA who wants to keep the opponent at arm's length at all cost but usually lacks the tools to do so without putting it's few troops in danger.

    As for the supply/unmasking list, while I truly love the haidao KHD one of the thing I aimed for with this list was to keep the possibility to make a 5-man core with the HMG zuyong, just in case I'd need some serious firepower, and It wouldn't be possible with another haidao.
     
    Paegis, KestrelM1 and Golem2God like this.
  8. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Well, I messed up also how I should have played this game (and conditions in which we played this game didn't help too) but the E/Mauler Krit laid during your first turn definitely helped to lead me to not coming to visit your Zuyong Haris team with my Teutonic and rip them apart through spitfire and CC attack.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    From my experiences neither of your lists are viable. I see too way too much spec firing E/M for it to be viable relying on Krit to keep your shit together, and too many hackers and repeaters to get past not having a KHD. Trying to fight shit becomes really hard when an AHD decloaks on a roof above your link (or someone puts a pitcher up there) and starts trying to pick your link apart. 5 man link bonuses are cool and all right until you roll into someone who hard counters your shit, better off to have a list that can deal with it.

    See, given the odds on straight up dodging that attack I think you still should've gone for it given the opportunity cost. It has high odds to pay off and if it does @Sedral's dead in the water if you can rip his Zuyongs to bits as you believe was possible, most of his gas is in that group of collected Zuyongs, trading a Teutonic Knight to rip up the Zuyongs is easily a value trade for you (I'm assuming this is a solo Teuton NCO or something if there's Magisters and it's a link that gets even easier to dodge the e/Mauler and kick teeth in).


    I don't actually find mines to be a particularly potent defensive tool outside of minelayer for IA. Like I was pointing out earlier because of the value in IA's models and the fact they tend to collect into tight groups, either brute forcing the mines or flinging chaffe into them to clear the way or attempt to dodge through it is still the way to go.

    If my Shaolin monk sees 100s of points worth of models around a corner but there's a mine in the way, does he stop? No. He's a 5 point idiot, I don't care about him. He's gonna go play dodge the mine. If he screws up, which is only 30%, I don't care. But if he doesn't now he's gonna go kick expensive teeth in. Same for a Guilang, I might die to the mine, but there's a high chance I don't and unleashing point blank Boarding Shotgun and spraying down a link team is extreme value.

    Mines are a potent offensive tool, use them to bully stuff around corners and push them into taking bad choices, but I don't rate them in actually deterring a real attack on the Zuyongs. They're too big a target to actually deter an attack your opponent will either often either engineer an attack route by burning the mines or take the odds to dodge past them. I had a Guilang navigate 3 mines today to get to an Interventor LT at the back of the table, because my opponent didn't protect him with ARO pieces properly and was relying on minelayers to pull most the weight, it all fell apart when a Monk ate 2 of those mines and created a gap for the Guilang to rush through. If the target's valuable enough like an LT or gutting 100pts of offensive link team from the list, people can and should go for that shit, if you have 78% your Teuton shrugs that e/mauler off, go for it. I guarantee that on a regular basis people take less odds on success just trying to get past Flash Pulse bots and Warcors.

    Mines are definitely useful but their role is more of a force equaliser for a lone skirmisher to tackle harder targets. Good value for Guilangs, Zencha etc, less so for a pain train link team. When you consider the order expenditure in most situations it's kinda better to simply approach the corner and dump more shotgun blasts around it than carefully setting up a mine. I think the only time this probably isn't true is if there's an Avatar hiding around said corner and we're going back to the force equaliser point, but that's a pretty niche end of the scale given that on a power curve a HI link is kinda on the top end of things. TBH I think the e/maulers don't really suit Krit and he'd be better if he had Mad Traps because they have a better spread of uses, better order efficiency and they really get funnier with a Pango in the link.
     
    #89 Triumph, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  10. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I was playing Vanilla so, yes, NCO Teuton (who is an awesome trooper as a solo beat stick). Thing is, I couldn't navigate around the table to see clearly how the terrain was on Sedral's side and we were low on time since the start of the game so, it was easy to make some mistakes.

    On the other side, I think Krit is an answer to a wider question which partially still need to exist, like the Yadus were before all those Jammers and E/Maulers appear in the game. I don't know if Krit worth the care in a Core team. The fact that you can send one of your Zuyong on a E/Mauler and still repair her afterward if she fucked up is a good option to spare orders to move forward and kill/grab more.
    The example you give with your Monk is still true without the E/Mauler. There no reason to not try to get there and kill 30+ points of HI with a 5 pts WB. Thing is, the E/Mauler gives a good chance that you'll be forced to stop after the first one instead of riping off the whole FT.

    TBH, I don't have opinion on him yet. Maybe in six months, everybody will praise him or maybe he will join the Hector's club of the units with too much stuff on them for a too much high cost for what they really bring. But, for playing De Fersen for some weeks now, I never felt all those reasons everyone mention to not field him relevant on the field. During this tournament, he had endured a full turn (7 orders) of cyberduel with a Heckler KHD and he was still alive while the Heckler was in IMM-1 state for 2 orders and successfully Reseted only on his last order.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think this is where our thinking significantly diverges. I don't rate a slightly under a 1/3 chance of stopping a warband ripping into my very expensive core link as "good". I find the better use of the order is to either straight up retreat, maneuver something else into the way to fight said warbands first (like a Zencha in SF mode), or get something like a Haidao into overwatch.
     
  12. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Yeah obviously if there are warbands in the mix you'll need something else on top of the mines. It's one of the reason why I prefer my second list, if needs be i can throw away a few flash pulses bots, or even put the rui-shi/zhencha in supressive fire. It's trickier if you don't have first turn though, there your only option is to castle up behind your haidao and hope your opponent's big bad wolf won't kill him too easily.

    As for E/M nades and hackers, mines are a nice tool to keep them in check and stop them from getting too close (as I did in my first game). Unless you're up againt druze or starco that is, but Emily don't care wether or not you have an engineer since he'll eat a grenade too. Reactive hackers are also less of an issue when most of your HIs are protected by a tinbot + fairy dust, it's not completly safe but it's good enough, and if you REALLY don't want to risk it my second list also packs a grenade launcher to get rid of them pesky hackers/repeaters.