Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Cothel, Mar 13, 2019.
Im not sure I follow. You make it sound like the Jaeger is bad
ha ha Jeager is good but it is not your typical Ad unit that can "jump" on the table and surprise an opponent it is mostly a Save specialist you keep out of table then put it on last turn to grab an objective or heal a specialist that got unc and don't get finished off by opponent.
and a Role of Shock trooper in this sectorial seams to be filed by mr. Cute tan :) - he is not a specialist he is disposable liutenent / specialist / key unit (like this new Immoral army dudes that shares orders but got 1 W, or a NCO units ) hunter - like Fiday / speculo - they fill up this role in HB Fiday is a Shock trooper when Ragic is actualy AD Specialist hacked to make objectives done.
I suppose if you're looking for the Jaeger to come onto the field and run the board like a Tiger or a Gao Tarsos can you won't really get it. But the Jaeger is still quite able to kill some key models or crack open a tough fire lane. Sneaking up on folks from behind the SMG. Or with E/Mitters into an important HI/TAG an easy monofilament to finish the immobile unit off. Plus he gets to be a specialist which is always a nice thing to have.
For me Jager is primary specialist and stealth just helps him grab objective or Heal a unit near the edge of table without causing aros and Cute Tan / Cute San :D is in your face - "hello im here now you have to deal with it and waste orders trying to kill 28p not specialist no key unit "
Getting whole thing with E/Mitter + monofilament require a high cooperation with you from your opponent - it is not something you may say "ye im fine Jagger got covered all Hi and Tag problems " ;)
You're right a Jaeger doesn't just magically solve all your big stuff problems. But its surprisingly solid at it. You clear someone watching a fire lane. Drop your Jaeger in. Move in on the back arc of the TAG giving you trouble and then hit that sweet sweet 8-32" band on the E/Mitter and once you're there its pretty much over. It reminds me of playing in N2.
In about 8 games with the Jaeger he's picked up an Overdron, Kriza, Samaritan and probably about a half dozen line troopers/REMs. Obviously YMMV and its not every game that he shows up and mercs a TAG. In those 8 games I think I saw maybe 3 HI and 1 TAG that he didn't end up trying to pick a fight with?
Regarding Marker state - Kotail already proves marker can have bombs/mates.
Regarding commentary that "it's just like Camo but worse" - someone is forgetting that the model can freely deploy anywhere outside of enemy deployment...
These dudes look amaze and, yes, the best ones are Spiral only. Makes sense because Spiral is the supported iteration of Tohaa moving forward atm.
Strange he is more like Cammo but better / other
he benefits from Suprizeshot and suprizebutsexs
infiltrate up to DZ without rolling
and got 2 W
and he is not specialist so no problems with "i may keep him for later if i need to click something " - Calipso :P
just don't set him up in front of Flamethrower ...
it is good area denay tool to - if you set before your opponent - they may not set mines or other pandas , in range so you could in this way clean an edge of the table that would be covewred in mines , pandas and other running and exploding animals , or it worked this way while ago - that you may not deploy any of this things in deploy phase in "engaged state"
and he poses E mauler in one profile and this is another area denay tool
Yes they normally can .. The only one that can't is AD jump troop when they are not deployed during start phase
my regret is why no light or bording shotgun .. but it's already gooooood
I can mix a bit of my second faction (shasvastii) with my main !!!
I feel spiral faction will be very interesting to play but not as flexible than tohaa.. have to check which references i miss to fill these...
I believe this is not correct, according to the rule:
SymbioMates can only be assigned during the Deployment Phase.
Placing your reserved unit is still part of the deployment phase.
N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.3, Oct 2017
Q: When are the Symbiomates or SymbioBombs assigned?
A: They are assigned at the moment that you deploy the trooper whose profile includes the SymbioMates or SymbioBombs.
So basicly you can if the mini in reserve is a Pokemon trainer :)
and i do not find the requirment of attaching to a "minature" there is a key word "troop" so it can be a marker looks so
I compare him with a Fiday, who costs the nearly the same and I change CC capability and BS against a second wound.
Whould have preferred if he would got only a Viral Pistol and Full Auto 2.
He whould have been different enough but he would be only an attack peace and no real Roadblock.
I put one on the table yesterday in a test game, but didn't play him especially well (as in never spent an order on him). There's definitely some fun potential with the symbiobomb, maybe nestled somewhere defensive as an ARO element if you're going second, but not having him as the reserve drop deploying first definitely wasn't optimal.
In the Batrep video he was right there shooting above Massacre's head. I think it's a new version of impersonation
I definitely feel that the vanilla and Spiral Kiuutan are very different beasts. The Spiral version can be a bit of an assassin with a point blank SMG to the target, or fill a similar role to the mines Fiday (IMO the best Fiday) being cheaper and with arguably better mines at the cost of worst impersonation and no smoke.
The vanilla one is very much something for picking off warbands or line troopers in easy locations. This thing isn't going to make a run on a hard target very often, but it can deter the opponent from a section of the table and then maybe hide on a rooftop and deny areas of cover.
I'm currently finding it hard to justify vs another Clipsos. Yeah the clipsos cannot do the "T1 attack run" so easily, but its better in most other ways and scores. Will come down ultimately to how many opponents are running crappy line troopers for orders instead of things with chain rifles imo
I want to try a Kiuutan as a reserve drop rather than with the bomb jank I tried already. Even just thinking about the one game I played so far, if I'd reserve dropped him he could have gone down on a rooftop and killed like four Kuang Shi pretty easily, or even just dropped into suppressive to nab them all when they activated.
The weakness of the lower marker state definitely makes them tricky though.
I have no plans to play this guy in Tohaa, he looks good for Spiral. Combi Rifle just isn't a strong option, Surprise Shot or not, and IMP-2 makes it easy to bunker a Lt or Specialist that he'd likely target. Not a bad Hold Model but we already have the Liberto who is better in that role. Two Wounds aren't going to last this guy if/when he gets Discovered and the more stuff you strap onto him the more it can backfire. Particularly he loses a lot of effectiveness if you go second unless the table has an ideal hiding spot (something you can't control or plan for).
SMG option is great, I'd have liked a Boarding Shotgun or even Light Shotgun profile but oh well. I'd probably use him in Direct Action Missions for Spiral Corps, too expensive and iffy for my taste in button pushing Missions.
Overall the model feels like a "win more" kind of thing. IMP-2 only is a big deal and adding more stuff onto him in terms of Bombs/Mates just sinks additional cost. If I want a mixed fighter/disruption piece then the Clipsos is far better and has more diverse profiles.
Does anyone have any sample lists including the Kiuutan that they've used or are thinking of using? This is a bit of an obvious thing in retrospect, but I'm struggling to easily fit a 30pt/0.5swc unlinkable model into my existing lists.
I'd add Kaeltar with bombs to the list. I've ran the numbers after seeing this idea in the other thread, and the chances of isolating a Lt - if you can pinpoint him, of course - are pretty high. I think this might be a very nasty trick from Tohaa, and I'm just happy no one in my group plays them. Yet.