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KHD Ninjas in ISS

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by DudleyLd, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. DudleyLd

    DudleyLd New Member

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    Would you say a KHD Ninja is necessary in a ISS list? If not, what other hackers could be taken instead? If yes, would it be okay to use a regular Ninja to proxy as one?
     
  2. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Depends on the mission, the combination of TO and Specialist makes it insanely good, where you can simply reveal them at the end of the game and switch from a lose to a win. (Such as Power Pack for example)

    The main reason it is taken is not because it's a hacker specifically, but because it's a specialist with TO and Infiltration. There is no other TO infiltrating specialist in ISS.

    If you specifically wanted a KHD, the Kanren is a very good trooper.

    I wouldn't even call it a proxy if you're actually using a ninja miniature. But yes, you could use literally any S2 models in the game to proxy as your ninja.
     
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  3. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. You can proxy out for a different ninja no problem.

    For 29 pts the KHD ninja is a hidden deployment infiltrating, TO camo, specialist. It is a VERY useful profile and highly recommended by many.
     
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  4. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    One KHD Ninja is an auto-incude in pretty much any competitive Vanilla or ISS list. Except if you are playing a mission with exclusion zone. It does so very much for you.
     
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  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    This is the big reason.

    And the Red Veil Ninja even has the tacbow modeled.
     
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  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    The KHD Ninja has been a letdown tbh. Infinity is still a shooting game and MA3 DA CCW is nice and all but even with TO you only want to spend so many orders shivving people in CC over Shooting them. Another problem would be that the Ninja is exactly as good at hacking as KHD as a Zero KHD for a lot more points.

    For that I'm actually leaning towards the Ninja FO. Can't be hacked, can sneak up on Hacker, has a proper Combi to compliment having -6 through TO. It's pricey and doesn't have a DA CCW but the package as a whole is a lot better. If you need Antimaterial for a Mission you're probably better off using the DA Combi.
    The Tac bow as a weapon honestly doesn't do a whole lot other than random lucky ARO shots and making a Profile more affordable. Could probably use an Upgrade to +6 in 8" and +3 in 16" to make up for having B1, otherwise it's pretty much worse for Active Turn than a Pistol right now with the gimmick of being Silent (IF you hit and kill on 11-14...). SMGs serve a similar purpose but are much more feasible for actual combat.
     
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  7. novino

    novino Well-Known Member

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    Problem is that there is no FO Ninja in Yu Jing sadly. Maybe you meant AHD Ninja as TO specialist.
     
  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Nope I meant the FO. Was pretty sure YJ/ISS got that one added as well like NCA got the Deva AHD/Lightning, but must have misremembered that.
    Hm since the FO is unavailable to ISS, there's a point to be made to run the Combi DA for Combat/Antimaterial duty. The KHD remains the the token HD (turn 3) button pusher. For a Combat Specialist the AHD is a tough sell, ISS has the Order economy to carry out the fighting with something else and stick with the KHD to push buttons after.

    Generally speaking I don't think running a KHD in ISS is necessary per se, still, the Ninja remains an improvement over the Kanren KHD any day and someone has to unlock those REMs after all.
     
  9. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking about the ninja KHD this week. I made a vanilla list that is going to run the Combi profile and the KHD profile.

    My plan here is to use the Combi version to harrass my opponent. Then try to stick him in cover in suprressive fire. I would try and do this away from any visors. Or just make him a threat that they jave to waist orders on. Inremmember reading on the forums awhile back that someone had good success with tye combi ninja.

    Now, for the KHD I have had good luck with my deployment on him. I have been able to do some hidden deployment engages to slow down units like TAGs etc.. mostly he is the midfield button pusher late game. I dont feel I have got good milage from him as others may have.
     
    #9 Azuset, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  10. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Member

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    I swear by the ninja KHD and always miss her when I leave her out of my lists.

    At the most basic level, you get a TO specialist that can swing the objective game on turn 3 and can't be easily removed before then.

    Then you also have a piece that can easily deal with suppressing mid-fielders by walking behind them with marker state and shanking them.

    Then you also have a piece that can tie up large threats in a pinch - I once walked her all the way to the opponent's DZ to lock down an Overdron plasma sniper in cc because my Hsien HMG (which is the usual answer to ARO pieces) can't deal with the Albedo. I've done the same to Cutters, Jotums, and all sorts of things that people leave out without sufficient overlapping firelanes.

    Then you have a piece that can fry an opposing hacker with surprise shot from halfway across the table through their repeater.

    Then you have a piece that potentially can stop your opponent from winning the game by revealing a vis-mod, DA ammo ARO on their objective grabber on their last turn.

    Well worth the 29pts I would say.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to be the weird one in this thread and say that the 26-point non-specialist Ninja has been my champion quite often. Doesn't randomly die to trying to do its business in a Repeater and only really needs to kill one important model (be it an LT or a TR remote) to tactically give return on investment.
     
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  12. HotFreshTofu

    HotFreshTofu Well-Known Member

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    Ninja MSR. You know you want to include her in your list. The model is sitting on your shelf, calling you. Feel her hatred within you. Add her to your list. Use her. Do it!
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Takes some getting used to for placement, though it's trivially easy to put things at -12 to hit you (and at least at -3 to dodge you due to Surprise Shot) while you're hitting on 11s or 14s. Think it was @Daemon of Razgriz who started doing that (first with the Tiger Soldier?), deploying close to the enemy's DZ and shooting his dudes in the back as they got close to your DZ.
     
  14. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

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    T'was me. There's a reason my handle is 'ninja sniper.' I always used the ninja sniper back in N2. Back in the OP HD rules era.

    Took that experience to make the tiger drop sniper to work.

    But yes. I use the ninja loadouts a lot. In fact. The 29pt KHD ninja is the one I like the least. Don't get me wrong. Not saying it's bad, or that I don't find value.... Or use it. I do a lot. But honestly, outside of staying hidden until the end to grab an objective I don't use them. I prefer the assault hacker, regardless of points as the combi gives me a lot more firefight options while still being a specialist and having points to hold quarters.

    DA CCW ninja was the best I have after losing oniwaban, so, yeah. Best I have.

    Of Course I haven't played in over a year.... So take that with that info.
     
  15. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    It is redicilus expensive. Its a sniper that can not shoot (BS11) but excels at CC. Its both fire and water in one model. For what ever you will use her, the other half is wasted. If you are lucky and make a kill shot with her AND a CC-Kill than you can put her on a pedestal :-)

    Last time I field her in vanilla and I wanted to use both - the AHD and the snipe profile. I remember that she shot holes in the air and get down in ARO by a Swat HI form Bakunin. I managed to heal her up and she made an ARO kill, a custodier. Funny thing, she teamed up with a bao sniper, that missed the target wide.

    If you wan´t to kill something with her with surprise shot, you can be sure, that at least one shot misses and the other will be saved :-) Take Lunah for that.

    The KHD is my go to Ninja Profile. Sometime only a objective grapper sometimes she makes cyberwar, sometimes she engage out of nowhere and rarley she even kills something with her bow.

    AHD is too expensive. In ISS I will use Kanren for that job.
     
  16. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    In vanilla, if I want an infiltrating sniper, the Guilang far outclasses it.
     
  17. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

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    as @Section9 said. Infiltrate hiim. Not necessarily past half way. But even on half way is fine. And a sniper with decent CC stats is a god send with this playstyle. As i've said many times over many years with that model. \

    1. Infiltrate and HD.
    2. Wait for opponent to advance.
    3. Pop out of HD. Advance (or just shoot if already in good position) and shoot enemy models in back arc out of cover. On the opposite side of the width of the board. You've prob denied cover and caught them with their pants down. Solid +3 for range with no negative for cover.
    4. Rinse and repeat as long as able.
    5. If there are close range threats on your immediate area. You have CC if able.
    The best part about that CC is that the worst place for a sniper is in 0-8". Well, ninja don't worry too much about that. (Unless mines.) The CC is a deterrent for enemies because the sniper is operating so far forward.

    Anecdotal battle report. Once rolled an entire game in turn 2 When i manage to kill Armend with a lucky shot from the HMG in active. Then used 8 orders from group 1. (Had 17 order vanilla) To uncloak and walk the ninja sniper up the left board edge (from half way infiltrate) to the opponent's DZ, shooting everything that advanced up out of cover. DA shots put nearly everything down. And shots from DZ bounced off TO camo, range and cover mods. (there's more to it. But this is simple version. And game is quite a few years old now.) Calculated from my damage that i had him in retreat. Then captured and held territory while he played his last turn. Profit.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Most other SK snipers are BS11 or 12, anyways. It's a rare sniper indeed that is BS13.

    What is more important is that the Ninja Sniper is trivially easy to have the target at -12 to shoot back (TO, range, surprise shot and cover) and -3 to dodge, for good measure.
     
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  19. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Talking about the ninja sniper, just for curiosity, I recall the RPG expands a bit more onto the ninja clans, both Great Japan and loyalist (to the StateEmpire) clans. Amongst them it's worth mentioning the loyalist Takemura clan due to the singularity of their techniques which base their expertise in marksmanship.

    So in the same way JSA and NA2 have access to the FO ninja profile, can YJ get their ninja sniper with marksmanship lvl 2, CB?
    Lol, ok, maybe it's enough a ninja sniper with BS more than 11.
     
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  20. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    The Ninja KHD Tac Bow is not particularly great. 29 points for no real gun, plus Hacking vulnerability, is abysmal.

    That being said, Hidden Deployment Infiltrating Specialists are so useful that most of us are okay overlooking the drawbacks of this profile. Infiltration, Hidden Deployment and Specialist wins missions, regardless of what else is on the profile. When you throw in the value of occasionally surprise-attacking a valuable target with DA, and it's easy to see why the Ninja KHD is a common sight.
     
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