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Jumping Gakis and impersonation markers

Discussion in 'Rules' started by RobertShepherd, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Just looking for a check on my interpretation of the following scenario:

    A Hassassin Fiday is in an impersonation state outside the enemy deployment zone. A Gaki is standing nearby.

    The Gaki declares jump diagonally upward, landing next to (but not in base contact with) the impersonation marker, intentionally taking falling damage.

    If the gaki fails the first ARM roll but passes the second, it will fall unconscious and explode.

    The Fiday can declare dodge and use kinematica to move 3" to escape the possible explosion, but must declare this before resolving the fall damage on the Gaki. The Fiday cannot declare dodge but stand still if she wants to avoid the template; she must move out of the potential explosion entirely.

    Alternatively the Fiday could avoid reacting at all, hoping the gaki dies or passes the first save. If she gets unlucky and the gaki does explode, the Fiday makes an ARM roll, that will reveal her.

    Any holes in this interpretation?
     
  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    (And for clarity: yes, I agree that the Jump rules need looking at.)
     
  3. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    There should only be one ARM roll, as you can't jump straight up higher than your first full MOV with a Jump declaration, much less diagonally.

    Where this is questionable to me is doing it vs. an impersonation marker. I recall Explode potentially affecting friendlies, but I can't find it in the rules now.
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    yeah Im pretty sure thats legit.

    Only querry is that explode still tags friendlies, outside of that everything you have said follows


    Rob is referring to the fact that failed Jumps continue rolling failed saves, like fire ammunition.

    As such the gaki needs to fail the first but pass the second roll to prevent going straight to dead.

    Height also doesnt affect number of rolls, it affects teh damage of the roll, though you are correct in that jump up is only ever dam-10 as you cannot exceed your mov value
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Explode does not trigger if it would tag a civilian, but I don't believe there is any such exemption for friendlies.
     
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  6. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    me neither, I think its the civie I was thinking of, if I recall pre HSN3 it was possible to kill your HVT with it if you werent careful
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    @RobertShepherd Explode is not a Template Weapon nor is it an Attack.
    It merely causes Damage 13 Shock hits with the Area of Effect of the Circular Template after entering Unconscious State.
    Explode triggers during the end step of an Order. As it is not a Template Weapon (again no Attack Label and not a Weapon) you don't get a Dodge against it.
    Since it's not a Template Weapon and has no Attack Label, Explode can affect friendly Troops - like an Impersonation Marker.

    So the Fiday from your example is pretty much screwed. However it should take some minor effort to get close enough to pull this off, as your friendly Impersonation Marker will not be a viable target to Move towards during the Gaki's Impetuous Order.
    He has to spend either it's Irregular Order or Regular Orders for this.
    Also Fall Damage works like fire so the Gaki might end up dying.
    You could also ARO with a BS Attack and hope that the unoppossed Shot + Fall Damage kills the Gaki.... or your opponent could be unlucky and pass his first ARM save.

    All in all it is just a 6 point Gaki, but doesn't have a huge chance of success.
     
  8. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    I always forget about that part.

    As a side note, from a fluff perspective, this absolutely seems like the kind of crazy thing a Morat or EI general might use a Hungry for.
     
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  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    @Teslarod the Fiday is entitled to dodge as an ARO against the Gaki declaring a long skill jump in her LOF. The dodge isn't in response to the explosion, which as you correctly note grants no ARO.

    Since explode is resolved from the final position of the Gaki at the end of the order, the Fiday can escape the potential blast radius by breaking her impersonation state to declare a dodge and move 3" from the gaki.

    (Also, Gakis are 4pts.)
     
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  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    yeah its more about catch-22ing the Imp marker
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  11. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Yup, completely forgot the Dodge.... and that it is resolved before the Gaki explodes. Which makes your initial interpretation the correct one - fumble on my part.
     
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  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    either way, i think this is a very clever trick. That said better with kuang shi as you can detonate them intentionally.

    Also explode does grant an aro, as shown in the example of detonate kuang shi:

    "Detonate Kuang Shi Game Example
    A Celestial Guard with a Kuang Shi Control Device spends one Entire Order and declares Detonate Kuang Shi. As his Combat Group contains two Kuang Shi, the Celestial Guard activates the Explode L1 Special Skill of both troopers. The player places the Circular Template over each of them and finds that each template affects two enemy troopers. As none of them has LoF to the Celestial Guard they must declare a PH-3 Normal Roll to Dodge the Template."
     
  13. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Explode from going unconscious on a Gaki or Kuang Shi is different from the Detonate Kuang Shi skill. The Detonate is a skill declaration which lays a template during an Order, causing an ARO to be triggered. Explode from going Unconscious, however, is a template that is placed during Resolution, unlike any other (afaik) template in the game, and it is not an Attack. It is an Obligatory Automatic skill.
     
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No, in this case the ARO is against the template attack considered to have originated from the Celestial Guard, as LOF for whether the -3 is applied is taken from the CG.

    Also side note detonating Kuang Shi to root out Fidays is probably not avisable, because detonate doesn't just detonate 1 Kuang shi it blows up all of them.
     
  15. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, it wasn't for the fact that both aoes come from the explode skill. but when those aoe's are placed. In the example of the gaki, the aoe is far to late to declare an aro against, not that it wasn't a a template to dodge against.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.