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JSA split options

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by zapp, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    @Del S All of those suggestions are very good ideas. I hope at least some of them come to pass.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'm more hoping the rebellion gets brutally suppressed in a nice twist, JSA remaining loyal to Yu Jing regardless.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I like Del S' ideá, but this would also work and fit. The two Kempei units would have to be addressed (Yuriko isn't Keisotsu, she's Kempeitai), of course, but the Special Counter-Insurgency Unit would easily and naturally take the Kempei's place as CoC. I'd just be worried about such a unit going on an ability bloat compared to the current Kempei.
     
  4. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious how this is even possible that the whole JSA can break off in one go with the IS being a thing. I am not looking forward to pages of fluff about their monumental incompetence, cruelty and hubris whilst the JSA heroes are relentlessly jerked off again and again. Simply put there is no way JSA can hold onto Kuramoi or whatever their Islands are called that makes sense.
     
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  5. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    I say the Japanese rebellion is triggered by Combined Army Infiltrators and Sepsitorized Community Leaders. Once the IS storms the place, uncovers the Combined Army Influence and shows the resulted chaos and burned Japanese Locations, the "untainted" Japanese recognize their mistake, and in shame yet new found strength unite to fight off the Combined Army Infiltrators, afterwards standing united with Yu Jing, both due to their own shame and wish for redemption, and the knowledge that they have to fight a common threat that is out to destroy them...


    Or something along those lines :-P

    Anyways, every excuse to get these awesome units into my JSA and having them stay with Yu Jing is A-OK for me :-P
     
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  6. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Don't expect the JSA to return to the fold at the same time the uprising becomes official.

    I just had a scary thought, what if Sun Tze is getting benched this season due to assassination, and that's how the Japs are able to pull off this conspiracy undetected. It lines up with the characters becoming unavailable thing and the general boot to the groin of Yu Jing that seems to be in vogue now that QK is running out of selling points to hand out wholesale to other factions.
     
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  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    To be sincere with you, I agree AND disagree. I think we can assume that the designing is "easy", it's not hard to extrapolate current global interactions and digital repositories into a distributed development team using VR and implants to design a new big HI "inside their head". Not to mention that, as leading designers, it's not hard to assume they had enough time to get their hands in the Su Jian systems (if the new HI/TAG is a Remote Presence thingy), so they were able to recycle a lot of battle-tested systems.
    And yes, the Karakuris were the first step that led to the Su Jian... that leads to the new unit.
    The problem comes from the production phase. While even today you can design stuff with relatively small resources (having the know-how, a big screen and a potent computer with Internet and some external hard drives is quite enough), the production of the physical product demands facilities, which means space, which means the "Rebel JSA" would need a base with industrial capabilities and resources they can access even after the uprising... or a design that lets them build and maintain the machine with whatever they can build/raid by themselves.

    I've been making numbers. The five troops we know of, if we assume they wil keep their current cost and be all a Combi model, add to 90 points. Unless the Unit 9 models are both HI with a 40-50 points cost, and the big guy Takoyaki is about a 60-70 "super HI" or "small TAG", not even using the Delegate as an active model will make this box reach 300 points.

    Personally, I think we will see this either reach 200 points, or a point where, removing one of the 9 points models and considering the Delegate an HVT, adding a new Specops/newly priced Yuriko Oda AND the O-Yoroi makes this a 300 pts Limited Insertion pack.
     
  8. Primo

    Primo Well-Known Member

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    These are the main reasons why I see a Remote Presence too Hi tech for a rebel army, yes the japanese developed the karakuri off which the Su Jian is based, they develop a lot of Yu Jing power armour, their zaibatsu have a lot of weight in Yu Jing industry and japanese officers are used as consultors and testers of new armours due to their expertise and exigence, but all that is in a regular army with its own national support, since there is no way the japanese territories become independent without being nuked to hell by the imperial service, the most help that powerful industry could give to a terrorist group is similar to what another nation like Pano could, very limited in its scope so that they can't be framed.

    That being said, the giant samurai robot is a thing so they'll find a way to justify it as unbelievable as it might seem to me. I just hope it isn't as useless as other high cost non infiltrating CC experts.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'd correct you here. Kinetic impacts from orbit would be the way to go, since the radiation would be none, and the risks of viruses/gases going out of control is too high.

    My point would be that those Zaibatsus would have to look for production places outside of YJ, and we have no data to guess where would go: PanO would gladly give them all the material they want (it's YJ vs YJ, so PanO wins either way), Ariadna would need heavy investment from the Zaibatsus and lot of work (so it would be too easy for the ISS to be warned), Haqquislam has not enough fame with industrial production but could do something in secret, Nomads is an obvious option ("pay us, we build it"... with an extra of "we will keep some plans and improve it for our own use" being quite possible), I doubt Aleph will meddle in this, and the rest are YJ, Tohaa and CA.
     
  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    How do we know that the giant samurai is not just a big suit of power armour?
     
  11. Primo

    Primo Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm discussing, the "great ghost" name and the Su Jian pieces seem to point towards remote presence, but I feel that's too advanced for a rebel army so a CC Yan Huo would be easier, the image also remembers me of the Red Veil Al Fasid
     
  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    There are major differences in between JSA pulling off a military coup d'etat to regain autonomy and an open Declaration of war.
    Keeping trade routes and supply line to JSA held territory open might be vastly more important to YJ than nuking them back into submission.
    Further one has to assume the JSA got something new to use as leverage against their rulers and this something was the final missing piece of a bigger puzzle.
    Might be PanO threatening an embargo to guarantee Nippon's autonomy or maybe even Aleph stepping in to prevent open war.

    Nippon is pretty much guranteed to have their own production facilities, their entire army is using gear with different specs than the main YJ forces.
     
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  13. Fire Broadside

    Fire Broadside The Red Comet

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    Indeed, this is not about JSA beating Yu Jing, but making themselves enough of a nuisance that it's easier for the StateEmpire (both economically and politically) to grant them actual independence. This is most likely a separatist movement, not a coup (although it might have elements of the latter).

    Rikugun was the Japanese Imperial army before and during WWII. It does not exist anymore as Japan today has a self-defence force. Having it show up here is another hint, beside the Kuge Delegate, that the insurrection has re-instated the Japanese Emperor.

    Youkai doesn't really translate well as it can be soooo many different things. You usually see it translated as demon, but I think spirit is a better fit as it is more broad. I personally think the unit looks ridiculous (at least the art) but maybe it can be salvaged if you put a gun on it. ;)
     
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  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    As far as I understood it, they had the prototypes for battle testing... at least a part of them. That being said, external looks are not that critical, what is critical is what differentiates a HI from a MI, so tech inside the armor. Which should be quite interchangeable between all YJ models because, you know, logistics. Even if you look at those from the "front" end, I doubt JY would make one kind of servo for the JSA, another for the Hac Tao, another for the Guilang, another for the... So as many systems as possible will be the same... so you can cannibalize the pieces from a fallen Kuangshi armor to repair a Hac Tao officer, or your parts warehouse has a single model of actuator 1000 times instead of 200 units of five different models which will demand stadistics to adequate spare availability with the actual needs, incurring in the non-inexistant risk of having to leave armors unrepaired because of unforeseen circumstances.
    All that from a people who, when talking about the Great Wall, have a legend about how the architect determined the exact amount of bricks it would need, and when asked if he was sure added one... and when the wall was finished, they had a single brick surplus.

    So chances are that, while there will be several places where the needed pieces are being made, and some will be in the Japanese land, production won't be easy to secure outside of YJ planets. And even if it were, YJ just needs to embargo the critical materials, strangling the production of spares.
     
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  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Ah, added data: for what my warcor says, a lot of displaced Japanese reside on Acontecimiento. Maybe the Uprising will involve PanOceanía, willingly or not? XD
     
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  16. sgthulka

    sgthulka Well-Known Member

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    Candy Cloud takes place on Dawn, as a pseudo-sequel to Dark Mist.

    Dark Mist was between JSA and Caledonia. Coincidence?
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    JSA rebelling isn't the same thing as Japanese Yu Jing rebelling. It could be just the army being subverted.
     
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  18. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    To be fair, it's probably going to be a messy break. But if we think about organizations potentially planning this for decades, coupled with the right external trigger, as well as (possibly) external backing from a powerful force, it's completely feasible. The military units are something I'm less concerned about; history is full of examples of brigades and companies breaking off to do their own thing, because the chain of command in a functional military force puts a lot of decision making capacity in the hands of a small number of people. All it takes is one sympathetic Chinese general to alter the situational safeguards on a Japanese brigade.

    The trickier question will be the civilian population, but we also know there are plenty of ways for civilians to revolt despite the most horrific of crackdowns. One possibility is that Japanese rebel leadership has been urging a migration of ethnic Japanese away from urban centers for many years, perhaps answering Yu Jing's call to establish new colonies, and that's a chance to relocate thousands of Japanese from under the thumb of the ISS (I can't imagine the Chinese leadership having a problem with sending second-class citizens out to muck around in a rural setting where they can't cause much trouble.) If the Japanese goal is to remove the Japanese population from major urban centers, especially if that relocation doesn't have a negative economic impact (hey, there's a new factory/mining complex opening up, we need people to work it) that's a winning proposition for the Chinese.

    As for the attitude of fluff we're likely to see... You're cheering for a totalitarian regime, what did you think the outcome was going to be?


    They may have a base capable of that prefabrication. Ethnic Japanese are not just part of the R&D component, but also largely responsible for labor/fabrication as well. Yu Jing may have shipped many of their industrial centers to remote Japanese-heavy population centers, because labor is cheap and noone wants those factories in upper-class urban centers. But now those fabrication centers that end up in rebel control.

    For all we know, factory and freight workers with Kempetai sympathies have been funneling off arms and munitions for years. A freight manifest gets adjusted so there's one less set of armor in the shipment, a sympathetic Gui Feng like Yuriko Oda investigates and says it was "recalled due to damage in transit", and the bureaucracy never knows anything is wrong while an underground movement slowly arms itself.

    When you combine that with the Tokusetsu's fluff, which talks about how resourceful and self-sufficient the JSA is forced to be because of consistent supply shortages from the Chinese brass, they may have already created workarounds for keeping their gear maintained and active in the field. I can actually imagine a story thread where a Japanese population in open rebellion relies less on industrial capacity, and instead returns to cottage industry workshops with established armor and weapon masters. Each suit of armor, CCW, firearm ends up being handmade, making them individually difficult to replace, and requiring JSA to place strong strategic emphasis on recovering dead/wounded comrades from the field.

    Taking armor as a specific example: when you look at how pervasive powered armor is in Yu Jing though... Line troops are equipped with it, and even penal legions receive relatively advanced armor... It's not rare technology by any means. If those suits are designed with interchangeable parts (certainly a smart idea logistically, for many reasons) it's probably very easy for JSA to keep their armor and gear functional.

    Fun to speculate. I hope this ends up coming to light as a new lore development :)
     
    #58 barakiel, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Nah, if what was talked on the local group is right, fluff-wise a lot of displaced Japanese live on Acontecimiento, which is the industrial center of PanO... so they might have "secretely used" the industrial installations there.
     
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  20. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Sure but if they lose their Islands on Shentung, how will they replace manpower?
     
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