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Jamming with the Haqqis

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Skaldur, Jan 10, 2018.

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  1. Skaldur

    Skaldur Active Member

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    As the title suggests, this thread is about how Nomads can deal with mutt-a-howeverYouSpellits and their jammers, specifically on the first turn when they are hiding behind terrain.

    I've played quite a few games against them now and it seems they are a super effective deterrent to alpha striking (the main advantage of going first). If you want to send a Rambo to do damage in the haqq deployment zone chances are he'll be completely shut down before he can do much.

    They are also effective at stopping other ways of hurting dug in opponents ( eg. Hacking and spec-firing grenades) because you will probably be in jammer range if you try it.

    Once the mutts leave their DZ it isn't quite so bad because it becomes easier to bypass them or shoot them from a distance but in DZ defence they are fearsome.

    What do you guys do? Are spec-firing with grenade launchers (which seems unreliable and order intensive), or just giving up on alpha striking haqq and focus on objectives the only options? Or am I missing something?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Sacrifice troops. Use morlocks. Place troops midfield for when they advance.

    Do not try an alpha strike if that is what the enemy wants, instead get ready for when THEY advance... hunt his exposed models, and get ready for when those extremely impetuous troops have to move to the closest enemy miniature. Be devious about that, position a bait so they have to choose between losing regular orders or risking badly the muttas (even a dogged troop will go down if you ARO it with 2-3 SF models!).

    Never engage the enemy in the enemy's terms, but in yours. And bring a Tomcat Engineer.
     
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  3. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    Since Jammers are Comms Equipment Pitchers + Blackout work extremely well.
    Edit: Nope they're no CE thus nope

    Also Speculatve Fire with grenades is safe enough if you can place the template between your Prowler/Krakot/Intruder and the Muttawi'ah.
    Grenade.png

    With a LGL you'll be always on te safe side though.
     
    #3 Tristan228, Jan 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  4. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

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    Jammers are not Comms Equipment. They are Technical Weapons that perform a Comms Attack.
     
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  5. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    You're right, I mixed that up.
     
  6. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Yea, it's important to recognize that Blackout actually isn't an option as far as I know, that catches a lot of people.

    So the two ways I have always dealt with them both try to capitalize on their extremely impetuous state. I deploy morans as far forward as possible, so that the impetuous order forces them to move toward your Moran and consequently, your crazy koalas. If your moran is out of LoF, even if they bounce the koala, it turns into a reset battle that a moran can delay for awhile. While isolation will lose you the repeater and the other koala, losing a moran to isolated isn't the worst thing, especially compared to your other infiltrating units. Outside of a moran, I also have success hunting them with zonds due to high mobility from climbing plus combed with forcing them to move toward a specific unit. The trick to all of this is, as xagroth mentioned, "sacrifical units". You have to accept that against a good player A). you probably can't deal with all of them going first and B). something is going to get isolated. In regards to bringing an engineer to repair that, I think that's going a little overboard. The things that really hurt to get isolated (TAGS, HI) should be far back enough that it's never an issue. If you burn orders trying to repair those isolations, you’re letting them do double duty IMO.
     
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  7. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to have any camo skirmishers I have set up a network of mines instead of trying to pull off a Rambo attack.

    Setting up some strong suppression fire lanes after establishing those mines seems helpful too.
     
  8. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    They're like any warband except they completely lock off the DZ. You usually can't alpha strike unless you don't mind taking a jam/cr to hit them, but they're countered the same way otherwise.

    I've tried a lot. McMurrough doesn't mind getting Jammed as much because they still need to go kill him. Tomcats can sometimes find a way to target them out of range with climbing+ but it's unreliable. If Bandits can get behind them using token state they can kill it in CC but a lot of times that's not possible. You cannot use T2F from around a corner to get to CC they just Jam.

    They didn't leave in a way around it.
     
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  9. Skaldur

    Skaldur Active Member

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    @xagroth and @Tom McTrouble
    Those are some good tips. I do already use Morans and they often become the jammer target for the reasons you’ve mentioned. The koalas have claimed more than a few (although it’s amazing how often the little bastards pass their armour saves). That doesn't help with getting at the Haqq DZ if you get first turn but at least its a way to deal with them afterwards.

    Coming from Corregidor into vanilla Nomads, Morlocks are one of the few units I don’t own yet, although I’m going to pick up a box soon now the new models are out.

    I’m hoping Morlocks will inject some new life into my Nomad game. I’m surprised I’ve held off getting them for so long and look forward to testing them against Mutts. I can see how they could be good for approaching with stealth and then popping out and killing the mutt a maybe some other stuff if you use the chain rifle. And then when they die/ get jammed you don't really care.

    That is a good idea too, unfortunately the terrain I play on usually has the mutts hiding behind buildings about the size of a Bandua Alpha building, usually the large ones, which make it hard to get close enough. I'll try it if I ever get one hiding behind a small container or something though.

    With LGLs, I feel like for Nomads it would take too many orders to lug it out into the the middle of the field (probably with link team in tow if you want better odds of hitting) and starting shooting in 16' range. And then it would be vulnerable to counterattack. The lizard with HGL could be better for the job but I don't own one of those.
     
  10. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity what units are you trying to get at the DZ with in vanilla? I (in general) play Nomads with 2 Morans, a minelayer zero, and 2 TR bots so I usually end up playing a defensive/set-up based game on turn 1. I've only ever tried to alpha strike with Spektrs and Bran Do.
     
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  11. Skaldur

    Skaldur Active Member

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    Usually its with a Bandit or a zero (although the zero alpha strike is more like run up and place a deployable repeater in range of Magriba Guard and then stick down an emauler to go off if they reset)

    I've also used bran and a Tsyklon before (buffed by assisted fire it's actually a really good attack piece)

    In Corregidor it's usually McMurrough or Bandit
     
  12. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Bandits are my primary alpha striker. I've been trying McMurrough recently though. You can't let hiding in the DZ counter you.

    If you can't get in the DZ killing off SK can be worth the effort against Haqq for the first turn. Especially Hassassin.
     
  13. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I would use Bandits so much more often if they were a little more expensive for MA3. Alas.
     
  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    This but "less often". You have any idea what MA3 costs? CC is still usually better than shooting on the Bandit. The Ninja is wrecked because it has to pay for that.

    Edit: you may as well wish it had TO.
     
    #14 loricus, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  15. BloodRose

    BloodRose Member

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    Ah the dread Haqq jamming device and yet another piece of evidence that a very senior developer loves his allahuh's.
    This piece of equipment is an utter nightmare to get around for any player, and typically the only way to do so is to either engage them at long range or get something behind them as nothing else will work.
    Alternatively you can try including a Tomcat Engineer and then sending in a rambo to deal with them, dropping the engineer in afterwards to fix them up. It is not the best option and will not work if there are more than 2 but its what we have.
    The final option, apart from a Morlock/Morran screen is to put a Sineater in a single order group by himself, hold him back if you deploy first, and have him shoot them up as they come. If he gets Isolated he wont care as he was in a single order group to begin with and doesnt want to be moving much anyway.
     
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  16. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    Nomads don't have access to it but anything with veteran lvl 1 or better doesn't give a damn about Jammer.
     
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  17. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I mean honestly I'd even settle for a little more expensive and being regular. The combo of irregular, WIP 12, and MA2 puts it in a weird zone for me where I can never justify it over a zero. Again, this is in the context of vanilla though. I would absolutely run them in Corregidor.
     
  18. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Until you steal your first HMG.

    Bandits are *very* good attack pieces. Not so great button pushers - Zeroes tend to do better because of mines and higher WIP.

    But as far as disposable attacking pieces, I had plenty of games that were won by a single bandit. Having the possibility of melee makes them very versatile, as you can end a turn engaged to someone, or actually handle in melee/tarpit something that you won't be winning a shooting contest against.
     
  19. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that they fill that role well, and that's probably the correct way to think about them as opposed to pulling double duty as a specialist (reliably, anyway. They can still FO a corpse). I could easily see them excelling at dislodging whatever is trying to hide from your intruders/geckos/brigadas.
     
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The only double duties a Bandit runs is how diverse their kill range is, anti-tank, anti-link, etc.
     
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