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Jammers not getting Fireteam bonuses?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    ...thus highlighting exactly how stupid playing strict RAW is with any ruleset that isn't refined to an insane degree by a giant company with tons of resources. Magic the Gathering, sure. A fun complex squad miniatures game? RAW is going to fail a lot.
     
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  2. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    I'm confused as to why jammers being BS weapons or not would matter, as Fireteam Bonuses specifically apply to BS attacks


    Jammers are technical weapons, therefore they make BS attacks, therefore they benefit from fireteam bonuses per RAW. I'm completely for the idea of them not benefiting from fireteam bonuses, but there was certianly a cock up somewhere if this wansn't communicated to players.


     
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  3. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    its for the 3-man bonus, that is for BS weapons, not BS attacks. But in the rules, there is no explanation of what is a BS-Weapon. Actually, even feuerbachs aren't so...
     
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  4. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Theay are some questions in the air...

    One if jammers are or not CD Weapons.
    Two, when jammers as CD weapons could be discussed, Bonus to +3 CD (Or others atributes used) not. Fireteam bonuses don't work equal between levels. +1 burst go against CD weapons. +3 CD goes against the atribute use to do CD Attack (Will if is required by the weapon, no matter if this weapon is or not a CD Weapon).
     
  5. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    Oh lawd, I just assumed that there was consistancy between how the different bonuses applied. Never dawned on me that there would be different conditions for the +1 B and +3 BS
     
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  6. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Guys, we all know what the intention is. Let's stop with the ridiculous hermeneutics and just play it the way that works well, and note that something is wrong so it can get fixed.
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    just to be clear... what is the intention? because we only know about a non-official ruling in a tournament
     
  8. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    hym .. Jammer in link is gimped any way
    but from technical stand of view :
    5 man link applay bonus +3 to stats used in Bs attack - tech weapon count as and uses Wip so +3 should applay
    3 man link applay +1 Burst to Bs weapons .. and i took me a walk out of infinity the game and just look what is a balistic weapon definition - it is a weapon that use a balistic object as projectile - aka bullet , bolt , arrow , rock ect - anything using a projectile
    a usage of micro waves , lasers , radiacion ect - no projectile do not count as balistic weapon - so jammer is out from getting +1 Burst
    and Flash pulse is not a laser ?? by actident ? (this woluld mean it should not get a +1 burst is we use common logic )

    o and such interpretacion should be anounced before event in open FAQ at lest 2 weeks before
     
  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    About linked Jammers? The ruling by the guy who writes the FAQ at the CB hometown tourney where the rules writer is walking through the tables is probably a good indication.

    Yes, actual FAQ rulings would be better, but these guys are really, really busy right now. If you want a company that has the manpower to handle publishing and maintaining a bulletproof rules set with extremely rapid responses to issues, you basically need Wizards. That's not CB, so chill and use some common sense, guys.

    Also, the rule is obviously broken. If you would like to debate that B2 WIP 17+ SSL2 no-LoF linked Jammers are broken, happy to take it on in another thread. But that is glaringly obvious to all but the most obstinate of us. Enough with baiting people to debate the obvious.
     
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  10. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    As far as I agree, that Jammer should not get a link bonuses, there were multiple occasions in previous years where ruling on IP were wrong. We should wait for official answer in FAQ, since this is very dividing topic.

    ps. Jammer is one of the reasons I don't want SpecOps on this years Warsaw Open in November.
     
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  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    It's obviously so broken that it disrupts the game. You don't need to wait for a ruling on it. Disallow it for any event where you don't want dickheads using this extremely broken thing.
     
  12. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I could agree in that the rule mitht be broken, but the ruling in that tournament is clearly a house ruling for that tournament. Should be treated as an errata in an oficial document, for it to be used like that.

    Or are people gonna do now that lalso with inked/full auto1 feuerbach (or some other weapons that have no "BS weapon" tag). Feuerbach isn't also a BS weapon, so it shouldn't then get the +1burst in those cases?
     
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  13. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    Feuerbach uses ammo , got ammo case fires out an ammunition not a wave lenght - so it is a Balistic weapon according to Wikipedia what is an balistic weapon ;)
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    but wikipedia are not rules of a sci-fi game. Flash pulse doesn't use ammo as such and has the BS weapon "tag" (is not a real tag but a description, there is no rule related to BS weapons, it redirects to BS attack). There are some examples of weapons that are not BS weapons, like the akrilat kanone, blitzen or trench hammer. The problem there is that they translated CD ("Combate a distancia" or "ranged combat") to BS "Ballistic Skills", as something related to ranged combat, not to being there any ammunition, just "ranged combat"
     
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  15. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    if you ask about tightning up rules im all about it
    but a balistic weapon got it definition in a real world - it would be nice if game devs would precise it what it mean in they own game universe
     
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  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    That's it. They didn't make a deffinition for BS weapons, but in the wiki it links to the BS attribute

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Attributes

    And in there it says "This conveys the trooper's prowess in ranged combat.". Nothing related to ammo.
     
  17. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    and from wiki tech wep :
    Technical Weapon. This weapon can make BS Attacks, but uses the WIP Attribute in place of BS. When using this weapon, consider all rules and MODs that would affect the trooper's BS as affecting his WIP Attribute instead.

    all mods applay and affect to BS applay to Wip to nothing else

    and this is what counts as BS attack
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/BS_Attack
    and it do not make anything better as things contradict echothers :)
     
  18. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Do we have any sort of confirmation that Hell Louis made the call or is that all still hearsay?
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    A talented technical writer isn't THAT expensive, but they can be hard to find, hard to motivate the chief financial officer to pay for ("isn't that the game designer's job?") and it can be hard for the lead game designer to relinquish enough control for them to do a good job.
     
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  20. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    As always the biggest CB problem is
    1- bad writed rules.
    2 - No response to forum's players base or no hearing at all.

    All games have problems.
    But as you can see guildball is made from a small company and they do some broken things from time to time. Their biggest point is " they listen to their player base" , they took the rules and championship in their hands, they FAQ'D and adjust cards/ stats the fastest they can.

    It's impossible a game without mistakes, but CB should take matters in their hands and solve it.

    I,.personally don't think the jammers in Mutts are a problem.
    Mostly of my adversaries always saves in their BTS, maybe is just my luck, but I agree that they should not be B2.

    But RAW they are
     
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