1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

I've not played many co-op or dungeon games... expectations?

Discussion in 'General' started by Chikahiro, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,791
    Likes Received:
    9,124
    How hard is it to get to an unwinnable position in the first couple games in, say, Gloomhaven?

    Every campaign potentially suffers from this problem. Hell, Risk can be lost in the first 5 turns!
     
    Dragonstriker and ev0k like this.
  2. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    150
    Let me rephrase: the back and forth about GW's quality control (or lack thereof) which isn't pertinent.

    Also, Shadespire isn't co-op (excluding that extra that come up in White Dwarf). Owning it, I don't even recall a campaign being there for it either.
     
  3. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Summarized points from the Q&A (naturally, all subject to change):
    • Lots of Shasvastii models
    • Working on a non-app AI
    • Of course someone asked about playing Combined Army defending against the human terrorists. "$2,000 backer reward. :)"
    • Tiles. Going to try to have a prototype for demos at GenCon
    • Both the characters and the ship will have their own XP grids
    • Who gets to be on the ship is still under design
    Everything else (and even most of that) is pretty much just speculation of what's going to be developed in the next few months.

    Randomized spawning decks and simple movement rules works okay for Zombicide, even for the necromancers. Giving each type of bad guy a simple priority list works okay for Undercity/Widowers Wood.
     
    WarHound, Barrogh, Deltervees and 2 others like this.
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    4,538
    I think it was mentioned that the Taigha (shasvastii "gakis") will be released with Defiance. The exact meaning can be both "inside the Defiance box" and "at the same time in its own box".

    (Personally I hope "in its own box" like the Gakis & Pretas, and tokens in Defiance, to keep the base game as cheap as possible, but allowing to use Infinity CA miniatures if desired).
     
    WarHound, theGricks and Abrilete like this.
  5. JacobJ

    JacobJ Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    25
    I'm hoping for the option of either 1-vs-many or all-vs-game, and also an optional traitor mechanic (speculo player).
     
  6. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    My hope is:

    1. Heros are metal miniatures with profiles in both Inifnity the game and Defiance.
    2. Combined Army are tokens, but can be substituted for the metal minis if you have them, or want to buy them.
    3. Legacy type game (similar to Gloomhaven).
    4. Big/Long campaign.
    5. Plans for expansions to add missions later and the ability to do that.

    I am honestly VERY excited to have a Co-op game set in the Infinity the Game universe. Like stupid amounts of excited. I do hope additional character packs are unlocked during the Kickstarter (I really want to play a Haqqislam Doctor-esq character).

    A dungeon crawler, if designed well has a LOT of growth potential similar to Aristeia, and could even be given entire large expansions of additional campaigns. The potential this game has is huge, and I look forward to seeing more on it as it comes out.
     
    WarHound, Nuada Airgetlam and xagroth like this.
  7. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    150
    Why hoping for metal minis? Not that I'm against them, but the Aristeia plastic minis are fantastic.

    I mean, if its an upgrade for folks? Sure. Aristeia had metal minis in the collector's edition. But that cost a bit more (obviously!).
     
    Sgt.M.Clayton likes this.
  8. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    Plastic basic box minis in A! were horrible. The further releases are passable but still have mold lines across detail that you just can't remove from PVC as you would from GW plastic or such (because the material crumbles and rolls instead of getting cut, it's too rubbery).

    If the miniatures are PVC then it's an automatic no-go for me.
     
    Croepoek, WarHound and Barrogh like this.
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,791
    Likes Received:
    9,124
    Buy some new blades, and change them often! Cleaning the mold lines on PVC requires a very sharp blade, after about 5cm of shaving you need a fresh blade.
     
  10. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    I tried fresh blades. It's still cutting not scraping off, which means you cut into the detail and leave a scar anyway.
     
  11. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    So far the information we have is that they plan metal miniatures for the game. As in, a separate game using Infinity miniatures rather than a third product line.

    But the future remains to be constructed.
     
    Dragonstriker, xagroth and sevsterino like this.
  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    2,564
    Would be very surprised if they make it a legacy game.
    Unless they want to sell us new missions/campaigns in a format like Timestories (which is fun but you really don't get much for your money objectively speaking).
    Not gonna expect a second Gloomhaven here but I they really have a big challenge ahead of them.
     
  13. Padre

    Padre Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6
    In an oversaturated dungeon crawl market, I hope Defiance does something fresh and doesn't rely only on the theme. The last thing we need is another "move on a grid, roll swords & shields" system. Fortunately, we have face-to-face rolls and the ARO mechanism, which should be a vital part of the ruleset.

    Looking at similar games in this genre, I'd say Gloomhaven is the one to beat rules-wise. Even without the campaign and 10 kilograms of content, the game stands on its own by offering a breadth of decisions you simply don't have in Descent or GW's games. Speaking of GW, if Gloomhaven is the one to beat, Silver Tower is the one to avoid taking any inspiration from. I was appalled how shallow ST was, a throwaway ruleset that mostly gives you obvious choices and relies on a series of D6 rolls.

    So, I hope Defiance is more like Gloomhaven (clever core mechanisms) and Gears of War (some creative stuff, like cover and some movement tricks) and less like Descent (a tired formula), Silver Tower (oversimplified random mess) or Conan (underdeveloped and shallow).
     
    xagroth and Robock like this.
  14. Pr01yfic

    Pr01yfic Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    34
    Silver Tower's idea of a challenge is splitting the dungeon deck at every fork in the road and if the side of the deck you pick doesn't contain the exit, you're boned.
     
  15. sevsterino

    sevsterino Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    146
    Exactly that. I would expect around 4-8 character miniatures in the box, with stats and rules for existing Infinity characters out of the box or in a downloadable pdf to use in Defiance. CB does not want to produce too many new miniatures at this point, but they would definitely like to boost sales of some of their current miniatures.

    I also hope that Defiance miniatures will be playable in their respective factions and together in O12 that I hope is coming in 2020.
     
  16. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    861
    The faster i can get a father knight or santiago into defience the faster they get my money.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  17. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest River Cool is where I belong

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    798
    Try sanding needles, nail files and jewelry files. These work well with Reaper Bones.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  18. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    The problem I have with plastic is the propensity to bend and stay bent. The A! minis are good but the amount of bends in them is obnoxious. Once they are painted I am NOT taking them to heated water to unbend them.

    Metal bends but it does not take much to fix the bend.
     
    csjarrat likes this.
  19. CalmEyE

    CalmEyE Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    17
    Personally I hope they go the route of Rangers of the Shadow Deep:
    https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/257695/Rangers-of-Shadow-Deep-A-Tabletop-Adventure-Game

    It features:
    * Simple AI
    * Events though a card deck drawn at the end of each turn (more vents that turns usually)
    * Swingy combat: "Oh, a rat I can deal with that" - Nat 20 on the rat - "Oh no."
    * Progression for your ranger and their company
    * Rules for 1-4 players and no GM

    But set it in the Infinity setting and add their own twist.

    I can say that I am excited for Defiance and can't wait to see what CB comes up with! :)
     
    Dragonstriker, ZlaKhon and WarHound like this.
  20. irishwizz

    irishwizz Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    12
    The A! plastic minis are nice, but miles away from the quality of the infinity metal minis. I'm very happy they're doing metal minis for Defiance.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.