1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

I've not played many co-op or dungeon games... expectations?

Discussion in 'General' started by Chikahiro, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    148
    So, looking at the initial pitch for Infinity Defiance, I am wondering what to reasonably expect.

    I've played a few coop board games like Forbidden Island, Gears of War, Sentinals of the Multiverse, and Marvel Legendary. So, I know there has to be enough maturity where players don't try to micromanage the others (or as I'm fond of telling people, "this isn't an RTS").

    I've played a little of a D&D dungeon crawler, Gears of War (arguable), and Dungeon.

    I'm sort of expecting tight combat, but that seems to be a given. What I'm NOT sure on is how "us versus the rules-generated AI" will pan out. Likewise, goals and such.

    I'm pretty new to Corvus Belli land... any ideas what their style could be here?
     
  2. Luisjoey

    Luisjoey High Marshall of Wotan
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    345
    Ehm... this is a board game more than actual RPG; but it will have the feeling

    I suppose the game will be more likely GEARS OF WARS that it´s one of the first well made MASTER-LESS rpgish game, with cards and the Cardboard AI (dont cheat on it)

    This type of game it´s more in the nowday fashion, i do enjoy games like Massive Darkness and those that doesnt require a Master or a APP to run it out.

    this will be awsome to play with a bunch of 3 fellow players.
     
  3. GHenrikG

    GHenrikG New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    I am not sure what to expect...

    Do we get random dungeons a la "Shadows of Brimstone" (or the D&D board games)? Or will the various missions be predetermined ("Dungeon Saga", "Descent 2.0" or "Sword of Sorcery")?
    Randomness has the advantage that you have a huge amount of replayability and an actual explorative experience.
    A fixed dungeon layout can be better play tested, but they are kind of "one offs".
    There is the possibility of a semi random dungeon: The map tiles are also printed on cards. Depending on the mission, you have three kind of determined tiles: Starting tile, objectives tiles and end tile. The other tiles are random. Now you build two stacks of random map tile cards. The objectives tile cards are mixed in one, the end tile in the other. Eventually, the stack of cards with the objectives is put on top of the stack of cards with the end tiles. Voila, you have a random dungeon layout with objectives sprinkled through and an end tile you do not know when exactly it will show up.

    Will there be a campaign of linked missions, which influence each other (I like the campaigns in Descent 2.0, in which success or failure in one mission defines other missions)? I would love to see sth like a choose your own mission campaign...

    How about the AI playing the opponents? Are they "simple attack the nearest enemy" versions, or is there some decision tree to provide variety (is difficult to implement)? "Kingdom death" and the boss fights in "Dark Souls" have solved this nicely, however, this is a pain to implement for every enemy.

    Is character progression implemented? If so, how does it scale within a campaign? Can I play a later mission with a level 1 character?
    Me personally, I do not want to have real character progression in the game. Instead, I would like the Defiant to be upgradable. Perhaps one can recruit new characters depending on the choices one makes. Sensors may be upgraded so you may scan the next two rooms once per mission. Perhaps even have a remote hacking station to assist the hacker in opening doors and sth like that.

    One can dream...
     
    Dragonstriker and 5th Dimension like this.
  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    I haven't watched the video of the seminar, but I'm pretty sure Bostria said at Adepticon that there would be upgrades for both the ship and the crew. Characters gaining experience is pretty much a given for this sort of thing.

    If nothing else, that's your level-limited character customization option, to offset increasing campaign difficulty.
     
  5. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Given GWs recent abomination offering, Blackstone Fortress actually tells you to re-roll and start again if you "unfortunately" find yourself in an unwinnable situation in the first game or two, I feel the bar is pretty low at the moment when it comes to sci-fi coop games. Rules that have been read by someone who speaks a language originating from the same continent would be a step up from current industry standard.

    That said, FFP's Forbidden Fortress is awesome, well balanced enough to be challenging without seeming unfair and has eliminated a lot of the chaff that the original SoB carried. So emulating the Frogs' design paradigm wouldn't be a bad move IMO.
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  7. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    #7 Cartographer, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  8. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Gloomhaven is a good example of what they can do here. It's a full campaign you play over a series of games, with character progression and the like. Pretty solid stuff and was very successful despite the campaign having little replay value.

    I would love if they did one of those games like Conan or The Others where there's a player who controls the monsters and creatures and actively has to try and stop the other players from completing the mission. However, I doubt they will do this because while I find it fun to have a cooperative AND competitive element to the game, these 1 vs Many games aren't very popular.
     
    Ariwch likes this.
  9. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    So, you're comparing a warband style hex arena skirmish game (kinda like Aristeia!) with a dungeon crawler? And calling a game that scored 0.4 pts below Gloomhaven "an abomination", as it clearly measures up to a crawler widely considered to be the best in the genre?

    Cool story, brah. It has its faults, sure, but what your name calling of it and "Shadespiresque" expectations are completely unfounded.
     
  10. itsuncertainwho

    itsuncertainwho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    337
    There is a fairly massive difference between Blackstone's 8.5 score with 354 ratings and Gloomhaven with it's 8.9 and 24,000 ratings.
     
  11. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    It has its faults that were easily identified and deemed both severe and common enough to warrant a mention in the rules, but not enough to, y'know, fix. You release a buggy product, no amount of fanboy gushing will make it better.
    The mark of a good company is one that improves as time goes on, GW were doing so well, then along came Necromunda, Kill Team, BSF and Adeptus Titanicus...
    What happened to the people who brought us Shadespire and Blood Bowl?
     
  12. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    Oh, so N18, KT, BSF and AT are abominations as well? And it's me fanboy gushing, not you fanboy whining? Cool, cool.

    And the Shadespire rules team re-wrote N17 into N18. Shows how much you know.
     
  13. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    • USER WARNED
    Got a Tinman and Lion to complete your set Dorothy?
     
  14. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    629
    • USER WARNED
    I don't need to, you're down the rabbit hole already. Now drink up on that "grow up" potion, please.
     
  15. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    You've not disputed, let alone refuted any point I've made.
    You resorted to personal attacks right off the bat, I can only assume because I had the audacity to criticise your sacred cow.
    Your attitude has been such that I've repeatedly had to assess down my estimate of your maturity, such that any continuation at this point would most probably constitute child abuse.
    Enjoy your ignore.
     
  16. Postmortem

    Postmortem Kazak Arachnophile

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    114
    The Others is a great game. Yea, true co-op seems like the big draw on KS lately.

    The ability to do a random, non-campaign game would be nice too. Once the campaign ends, it would be good be able to keep playing.
     
    xagroth and DaRedOne like this.
  17. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    I'm a big fan of The Others. I have almost everything from it, I think I'm missing only 2 sin packs and 2 hero packs. 1 vs Many is really fun to play, and I honestly think Defiance would benefit from it because having one player act as the mind behind the Combined Army would make them far more menacing than any Card-based or table based AI could be.

    However, I am very much not expecting something like this from Defiance. What I am expecting is some sort of dungeon crawling shootfest like Zombicide or Fireteam:Zero. In fact, Fireteam:Zero is another good example of how Defiance could turn out, with all its rules and long winded mission manuals. I am very much not a fan of that highly scripted style, but the Resident Evil 2 game did it and it was well received, so I can still hope for the best.
     
    xagroth and Postmortem like this.
  18. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Wait. What did Shadespire do differently, then? Otherwise you're basically playing campaign mode in a simple war-game (where all of the pieces are replaceable or reset at the start of each game).

    Because I've seen a lot of different campaign games where it was expected that bad luck or poor choices by the players could result in them getting into an unwinnable situation.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  19. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    148
    I don't think Shadespire is really pertinent here. If you guys want to keep on the GW discussion maybe that'd be best in its own thread?

    I remembered there's also the Arkham (?) CoC games which I think were co-op. I've got Elder Sign as well, but I don't think CB would go that route. Also, thanks for the mention of Zombicide - I totally forgot about having played that once. Betrayal on House on the Hill was co-op until it wasn't... I know they're not going that way...
     
    DaRedOne likes this.
  20. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    They're campaign based miniatures games by a company primarily focused on wargaming miniatures.

    Judging from what Bostria said at the Adepticon seminar, CB is fully aware and would very much like it if there's crossover between Infinity and Defiance players. So it's more likely that you'll see ways to add new Infinity releases to Defiance (and decent odds for Infinity profiles for the Defiance characters); and I'm expecting there to be at least a few people who buy Defiance for the figures and a few weeks later take a break from Infinity to see what this game stuff that came with their models is all about. :)

    If you watched the official Corvus Belli videos from the Adepticon announcement, those don't include the in-person Q&A at the seminar.
    If you can get through a Facebook video link, here's the live version of the seminar:


    If you want to skip ahead to Defiance, it starts at the 32:00 mark.
     
    Dragonstriker and Ariwch like this.