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ITS 9 Question and Answer

Discussion in 'ITS' started by locksmith, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    What about TO camo then and hidden deployment?
     
  2. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, good to know!
     
    ijw likes this.
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    It's exactly the same - an Infiltration Roll hasn't been failed to reveal the trooper.
     
  4. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    I think he is asking can that TO model failed the confused deployment then can he be put in hidden deployment but in the deployment zone. Not sure if the answer was to that question or to market state one.
     
  5. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    exactly.
    If this is true, than there is no reason not to make the roll on Biotechvore. If I fail to roll on Hidden deploy, I just hidden deploy in deployment zone - still safe for 1st round.

    Then what about monelayer?
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    That's what I was answering. And it's exactly the same, no Infiltration Roll has been failed, so Hidden Deployment hasn't been cancelled.
     
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  7. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, wasn't 100% sure we were on same page (we were, my bad). So thanks!
     
  8. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    Again. What about minelayer skill, or crazy coalas? If I fail the roll on confused deployment with zero or Moran, can I put them in deployment zone with mine or coalas anyway?
     
  9. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I would say no, as they are restricted to deploying under the same restrictions as the owner. You don't get to drop a mine over the halfway point as a consolation prize if you fail your infiltration roll
     
  10. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    But there is no infiltration roll. There was a Confused Deployment roll and only modifiers from infiltration/AD are used as additional modifiers.
     
  11. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    By failing Confused Deployment you are not allowed to deploy anywhere outside of the Deployment area. The only thing that would be overridden would be losing the mine with minelayer as that says you lose it if you fail infiltration.
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hunting Party:

    Enemy LT is IMM-1, and has plain sight to my troopers. I declare a Move, LT declares Reset, I declare BS Attack using Stun Pistol targetting full burst on LT. How does this play out?
    Reset is not specified as causing a FTF with a BS Attack, but Reset would remove the IMM-1 state leading to a race condition between the Pistol's effects and the Reset's effects.
     
  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    By turn's resolution, the Reset would remove the IMM-1 previously present, and the one you are trying to apply. The same thing happens with Hacking, when you generate an ARO to an enemy in IMM-1 and your active turn hacker declares an IMM-1-causing program (carbonite...).

    Remember: they can't reset if they are Unconscious... and you would have a chance to kill him but in IMM-1
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Does it really resolve in that order? Or rather, what makes it resolve in that order, given that "make ARM/BTS Rolls" is written after you are directed to apply effects of a successful order?

    Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls.​
     
  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    If you suceeded the Reset, you don't get to the ARM/BTS roll, and are not IMM-1. If you do not suceed, you are still IMM-1 and no BTS roll is needed.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Uh. What?

    Could you clarify this stance with rules references, please?
     
  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    You get a Normal Roll BS Attack with your Stun Pistol vs a Normal Roll Reset as Reset is not capable of FTF rolls vs BS Attacks:
    As a successful Reset does this:
    You can only remove a preexisting Imm-1 State with it. Even a successful reset will occur at the same time as the successful BS Attack, so saving rolls haven't been resolved yet and you could reapply IMM-1 if he fails any saves.
     
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  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    FAQ says you might be mistaken:

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Reset

    Of course, there is the "hacking attack" mention there, but the answer is clear, cathegorical and undebatable: "Any successful unbeaten Reset roll will cancel the IMM-1 state."

    Please remember that I do not remember at this time if there has been any ruling regarding how the Stun-changes-to-IMM1 "extra" in Hunting Party already, since we are told that "the Stun special ammo applies IMM state instead of stunned", so this means 2 BTS rolls by my interpretation.

    Anyway, per Order Sequence Expenditure we would be stuck on "Step 7: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls." when it comes to a final resolution without involving @HellLois (so I call him).
    Essentially, the doubt now is that, if the Lt fails one or two BTS rolls against the Stun pistol, but succeeds at the Reset, if the Reset gets applied last (thus removing IMM-1) or first (thus removing the pre-existing IMM-1, but suffering the Stun Gun's IMM-1 then).
     
  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    I just assume you missed my point.

    A normal roll Reset will canel a preexisting IMM-1 State. But as ARM/BTS rolls happen exactly at the same time as Reset applies the new IMM-1 state can't be purged off in the same Order.
    It's a little hard to get everything together as things happening exactly simultaneous isn't always easy to wrap your head around.
    But if you can't proof that you get to purge IMM-1 with a Reset AFTER the ARM/BTS rolls have been resolved, IMM-1 state would applied again.

    It's similar to how a Doctor roll for a Model in NWI works vs a BS Attack causing 1 W. In the end you never go back to 1 Wound or enter dead state, you'll simply stay in NWI as everything happens simultaneous.
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I did not missed your point, and both sides need to be proven in this case (if I need to prove Reset's effects get applied last, that does not mean it is automatically applied first), or wait for an official answer.
    The problem here is the FAQ, that directly contradicts your explanation in this post I'm quoting: there we see a preexisting IMM-1 state and a new one going to be applied, and Reset purges both. Granted, it's hacking Vs reset, but ARM/BTS rolls happen at the same time, so there is little reason to believe an IMM-1 causing bullet will be applied in a different point of phase 7 than a hacking program's effects.

    Thus my calling to Helllois, since I had the feeling the FAQ would be disregarded on the basis that is referred to hacking, and not a BS attack.