Isnt it too much?

But they use a different process...as I said. They don't have to be the same.

 

The fireteam rebalance hasn't even settled yet, but it did more for the competitive environment than what is being suggested in this thread.

Speaking of competitive environments, what were the results of Adepticon in correlation with the gripes about the current meta? Were all the top players at Adepticon working GML pitcher tech?

 

Honestly, the fireteam rebalance fixed a lot of the OP coming out of CJC. Its still strong, but you just don't have enough pts. to get the numbers this sectorial could get pre-patch. Can't have unhackable geckos anymore. (Mobile Brigada lost wildcard)

 

Don't think I mentioned Jazz in that regard, and I am aware that my issues are more global. It's why I use more generic terms unless Im using a specific example. but people see that example or when you talk more broadly hit on the one example profile they think exists then think that is the only thing thats an issue, or that you have an issue with.

Cool, like i said up thread that is fine if if you get to go first but if you dont youre already crippled and therefore its worthless advice, try again.

Also what regular opponents? You hardly see BTS 0 hackers anymore and they are the only things that it effective against. you may catch the occasional BTS 3 hacker operating solo but more often than not they are behind a firewall of some description and that point you start being more likely to bounce than sink the wound, and that only gets worse when you reach BTS 6 and 9 with access to a firewall.

Remove Firewalls from repeaters then punting one into your opponents DZ (whether by pitcher or other means) becomes a more risky proposition as any hacker (and lets be real here people only take the HD or HD+ these days) is able to put up a decent defense.

 

And gained three new units, which were needed there like a hole in the head. The wider issue is that the single weakness Corregidor has left is its relatively week chain of command.

It has one of the best, if not the best combat Doc/Engineer unit in form of Tomcats. Best Combat Jump unit in the game, better at it than specialized characters. Very strong midfield presence, with one of their units being an unhackable, camouflaged light HI in all but name. One of the best Repeater coverage, plenty of good to great hackers to take advantage of it, very good warbands - now including linkable HI warbands - and one of the best standard TAGs in the game. Compare it to PanO ones, they're supposedly the TAG faction.

I'll repeat myself - the problem isn't one, glaring, easy to fix issue. The problem is, that there are multiple upgrades this particular sectorial receives across the board. I've heard even CJC players complain that it's getting out of hand. It's pretty hard not to feel bitter about it.

 

I am not missing it, I am laying out what has already been attempted to balance it and how it fared.

No risk of loosing models can also be said for grenades and grenade launchers, obviously with less effectiveness and or shorter engagement distance.

The main question is how to balance it without making it a pointless endeavor.

 

It’s also worth remembering that for as “risk free” it’s said to be, beyond not being foolproof it’s also burning finite orders that cannot be used on other targets. It’s not unreasonable to presume that it’s seen as entirely reasonable when the 15 Trooper cap is also factored in.

 

Well, better that it be made a pointless endeavor than a no-brainer, considering how it bypasses positioning and counterplay almost entirely.

You're commenting on its lack of efficiency, but right now it's *too* efficient for a no-risk play, so it could stand to be made a bit less efficient.

 

There's a difference between a cost and a risk, especially given that putting repeaters everywhere is not much of a risk because it's no overextension. Putting a repeater in an area via pitcher is often better than moving a trooper there, because you're very likely to clear 32" in one order, and you aren't vulnerable to attack - anti-hacker measures that use the repeater net have been defanged, and you can put the repeater in a hard-to-get-to spot. Even if they take it out - so what? It wasn't a trooper.

 

I've started bringing Fusilier Hackers again thanks to this assumption. They're not exactly incredible, but they're 15pts, not worth a Pitcher and even Nomads don't usually bother bringing a Hacker that wants to be under one of my Repeaters anymore. I'm still not brave enough to put a Hacker in my Core though.

 

More regular targets like... Jazz... when she's not got a tinbot.

And like, at some point you've got to realize that there also has to be a functionality for those BTS 0 hackers out there. Proposing crazy shit like ignoring firewalls is all good and fine, but that's basically what keeps them at all functional.

 

Okay, one last post on this matter, since you only answer the half you want to answer:
Why is this "cool new trick" of walking to hidden fireteam members using marker state not working for Jazz?

<skipped the rest of an answer, waste of time, as everything has been said several times>

[edit: Ok, I thought about it. To spare me another "answer", I'll write again what you said:

Means, you want to use marker state to walk to the fireteam member of the Kamau, kill them so he looses his boni. Fine. But why not use marker state to walk to Jazz, who is hiding like a fireteam member of the Kamau? She can't be more protected than the Kamau's fireteam. If it is that easy to kill fireteam members, why are we talking? Use a camo troop, walk to Jazz and shoot her. Problem solved, Case closed.]

 

How to resolve the Guided Missile overpower feelings?
Add a new program to EVO and some other BASIC hacker. Basic as standard issued LI.

Countermeasures (ARO)
Whenever a model is targeted with a Speculative or Guided Attack while in Targeted State, you can use this program. A successfull WIP (maybe with Range MOD as a gun?) roll removes the Targeted State from the model.

This ensure that at least an attack will always go down. A second one depends if the enemy brought an EVO and on dice.

 

TBH there's not many of them comparatively speaking that are actually truly highly vulnerable, BTS0 tends to be a Line Infantry concept (and even then that's not universal there's several line infantry types that pack BTS).

For example Yu Jing has 17 profiles with Hacking Devices.

Of those 17, only 4 profiles are BTS 0.

Of those 4 profiles, 2 are marker state and/or Hidden Deployment (Ninja, Guilang)

Of the 2 non marker state, 1 is an AD troop who starts off the table (Tiger Soldier)

That literally leaves the 16pt Zhanshi as the only BTS0 guy in an entire faction who starts on the table as full on KHD fodder.

Would he be super vulnerable? Yeah.

Should he be? I dunno, it's a 16pt line infantry it's not exactly meant to be a god tier unit.

This certainly made more sense before CB criminally dumbed the entire hacking system down and the Zhanshi made more sense as a back end jack of all trades support unit. Hurling pitchers at him or over extending to take him down didn't really make a tonne of sense, the unit wasn't super dangerous it couldn't Oblivion, it was an annoyance at best when ARO hacking (read, it was bait) and was generally in a list to buff REMs and offer things like hack transport and U-Turn. Over extending on him was a prime way to get whacked by a Ninja KHD in a 2v1 ARO so they generally got left alone early on in the game.

 

I'm still of the opinion that the entire N4 hacking system needs to be overhauled. CB did far more damage than good with the N4 changes to the system and they utterly failed in making it more streamlined.

I challenge you to go through army and count the number of non standard hackers packing weird combinations of shit like hackers with no device just programs, random ECM, or the ever increasing variety of profiles with unique programs. It's just as much of a mess as it was before and it's only going to slide further in that direction with every new faction update.

Burn it to the ground. Start again. The Fireteam overhaul was big series of changes and it was an overall positive one in my opinion. Give Hacking the same treatment.

 

Trinity is the only hacking program that gives you a bonus to your hacking roll, so that in effect, cancels out the firewall penalty.

 

A) Firewalls go to -6

and

B) Trinity does nothing to change the -3 Damage MOD they apply and is functionally a DAM11 basic bitch pistol when put up against a firewall.

People are mistakenly referring to Trinity as the combi rifle of hacking. That's blatantly incorrect, it's a fucking basic pistol alot of the time.

 

I didnt say ignore firewalls, I said remove them from repeaters (or at least remove the damage reduction). and they arent functional, when almost everyone has access to a better hacker at a marginal increase in points to slot into a FT why would they bother with a chaff one out side of wasting slots on multiple for saturation. those regular hackers are shit anyway and are already super vulnerable to KHDs and other hackers making them more threatening to the hacker elite (hell even make them threatening against the middle of the pack hackers) will have no impact them what so ever beyond you may actually start seeing KHDs back on the table in the first place.

the F2F is fine and not the part thats the issue its that it does not have the damage to threaten anything except the most shit tier, basic bitch, BTS 0 line infantry hacker, and even then when they are behind a firewall they have about a 50% chance to shrug the damage. Which only gets worse as they pick up any BTS, making so only Oblivion is capable of attacking them reliably then you have to deal with hackers with veteran which truly are immortal in the hacking space.

 

A Combi only wounds on 10s or lower against ARM0 in Cover, which is what Firewalls are supposed to be in the Hacking equation. Trinity's actually a fair program that I like a lot, it shreds the BTS 0-3 targets with minimal MODs it's clearly designed for, but being able to fork out extra for a Hacking Sniper Rifle or a Hacking HMG to handle ARO or trickier situations would be much appreciated. Wouldn't even need to change anything else in the system; Nomads, Aleph and CA still get more optimised stat builds for Hackers and neat gear like Tinbot-6 (functionally Mimetism for Hacking) but everyone else can pay a premium to push through the disadvantages and make things like Pitching a DZ into a misplay again.