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Is Vanilla Yu Jing viable?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Zerooness, May 13, 2019.

  1. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Oh well in that case its not offcial.

    Yu Ching is misunderstood. We look out for the whole of the sphere. We use the tools that we have to ensure the future for humanity. It is simple.
     
  2. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    when your signature unit is a political prisoner with an explosive collar that you push as a meatshield and your prime sectorial is a sinister future police it is hard to characterize a faction as anything but evil
     
  3. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Woo poorly formed stereotypes!

    The lore or kuang shi is a bit more nuanced. Similarly to the helots. Or do you think they’re just a straight up slave species?

    Forgetting one particular example of a very bad character, the ISS has an interesting dichotomy to what westerners would look at justice, exploring the themes of whether the greater good justifies the means. I also think there is a bit of yin-yang between ISS and IA now which is cool.
     
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  4. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    Positive perspective was requested, a positive spin was offered. A viewpoint on what yu jing offers and does not offer is just that. Whatever mindset you bring to the hobby bleeds into your opinion and you naturally find evidence to reinforce that.
    Pets get special treatment and playable CBLs are unique to yu jing. It is a defensible truth if you feel like stretching your definitions. But you could equally justify applying it to any faction, each has something the others lack for (piles of dry sectorials inclusive).
    But I don't particularly feel there is any intentional bias by CB towards any faction. I don't really believe yu jing is the 'pet'. Infinity remains a great game because there isn't a demonstrably favoured faction.
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of, has CB dropped the idea of CBLs? I mean the first two attempts weren't met with much accolade
     
  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I think that if they wouldn't mind to rework the SWF ones, they would find some audience. I've played them a bit once and while they have too much weaknesses for now, they can become much more interesting with few change.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I just feel right now that, sure any vanilla is viable, some more than others, but really only with a really good player. While Sectorals are considered more “advanced” rules. They are a little bit easier for a new player to come in and win. Vanilla needs to have a player who knows how to deal with fire team, less order efficiency, and less AVA of good profiles. While simpler in rules it doesn’t mean simpler to win. This is kind of why I think the new O-12 faction seems to be a bit powerful. They need to be able to hold their own against a sectoral. So far, we haven’t seen them having Tac Awareness, NCO, Lt.2. either. So just by doing that CB knows that Vanilla has some disadvantages.
     
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  8. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    Use them or lose them.

    Seriously I'd guess the main obstacle is the format; I am hard pressed to think of suitable subjects for CBLs. Commercially your up against the arguement: why not develop a full sectorial instead?

    For example:
    Your subject is the combined army troopers and their tohaa allies in sygmaa territory:

    Maybe something could be done mashing the really limited sygmaa range with some tohaa and big bad EI aspects? Taking care not to step on onyx, vanilla CA or tohaa in the process? As a thought excersize where do you go with all those limitations?
     
  9. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Thats gonna be a "yikes" from me sorry

    Same way I can say about sectorials that effectively using fireteams (even moving them) requires advanced skills - novice players keep placing their Riot Girls or even some softer 5-men cores in the open, lose everyone to templates and shotguns and drop from the game completely.

    I hope so, they should have the data that those that they came up with were extremely unpopular.
     
  10. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    I really, really wouldn't mind White Banner themed CBL, TBH.
     
  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Sure
    At least the Svarlaheima CBL was a preview of a future sectorial
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    You kind of made my point there. You know how to deal with a link team that's not done correctly or know how to take advantage of your tools. But a new player with a sectoral is going to have advantage of a new player with Vanilla.
     
  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Really? New players tend to cram up their teams, getting blasted by Rockets or similar templates by other newcomer, making them regret their day..

    Guess we play in different environment.
     
  14. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to be a top 10 worldwide player to reserve and place a Noctifier on a roof looking at the enemy fireteam.
    You need to know a thing or two about the game, rules interactions and tactics to play around and deal with things that put normal rolls into non-team leader models.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are an experienced player that knows that to take advantage of that. Both of you just said, who I believe are experienced players, tactics to take out a a link team. Even some that may have been playing for a bit don’t know to do that. You will know how to use your vanilla force to deal with it. But a new vanilla player will not. Players being equal and no luck involved, i personally feel, the sectoral wins out.
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    You haven't read much cyberpunk literature, have you?

    The government(s) and the corporations are ALL antagonists.

    You might be from PanO or from O12 or YJ or whatever, but there are PanO corporations that are significantly more evil than even the Imperial SS. Like MagnaObra, and whoever is (arguably) enslaving the Helots on Varuna. Crud, the very name 'helot' is Greek for "serf" (in the medieval sense, someone tied to the land and unable to leave it), bordering on "slave"!


    The problem with the PanO CBLs and with the YuanDun CBLs was poor optimization for ITS. In addition, YuanDun had egregious, nauseating fluff, but I'm trying to restrict my commentary about why they might not be used much to mechanical issues. There are some people who would play YuanDun because of the fluff, but I'm not sure I want to game with them (and I play both SS and Soviets in WW2 games!)

    If you're not allowed to 'adjust' the lists to be able to complete ITS missions, nobody is going to want to play them.

    If CB wants more people to play CBLs, they need to either make some narrative events kinda like the Paradiso Campaign, or make the CBLs really well-optimized for ITS play.
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They caught more flack for the lists themselves than the fluff, I think. I'd be willing to play list D and possibly C if I could make a regular ISS list for my second list.

    Still, I'd have expected them to come out with a new set of CBL by now, I think they can be interesting hype builders for coming sectorials if done right. You don't need to develop an entire sectorial for them, just making 10 lists with no real thought going into tool availability, customisation options or fireteam construction options should take less time. All you need to do is get 10 to 20 profiles that give enough specialist options to complete missions and mash a few of them together in a fireteam [x5] - fireteams don't need to be consistent, individual profiles can be tweaked with gear they don't necessarily have, and really the only limitations you have is faction and ability to do classifieds.

    So I'm just wondering if anyone has heard if they've just iced them or stopped fully.
     
  18. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    Yes yes corpo govt bad street punk good gib anarchy now. That's whatever. What I'm saying is that in the context of the original campaign I think its most likely that the scrappy team of nomads, ariadnans and submondo goons that were the PCs were more often than not doing stuff thwarting big bad A U T H O R I T A R I A N yu jing with a bit of pano thrown in there pulling up like yu jing did in outrage.
     
  19. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Lulz, I hope you didn’t read the Bakunin fluff then, especially Taskmasters and how they use Morlocks.
    Also, the entire thing on how Hollowmen are created may make Nomads the most morally repugnant faction in the game, by a mile.
     
  20. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised they weren't the NPC faction in Defiance after Uprising.
     
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