I really like the Zhanying profiles; initially I took a shine to the SSL2 hacker (after having played a wardriver in Ikari), but the madtraps is my current favourite. I like them for all the reasons you had, and one more. I like Suppressive Fire on SSL2 models, if there are sufficiently enclosed (around 8") firelanes surrounding objectives. Did you find that was something you encountered on those boards? I know you both said there were some boards with open sections...
Ah, I think portraying the statistics like that is misleading. I like Madtraps alot, I have like 10 custom built little bastards, but the reality is they're not 55% effective against Achilles because unless your opponent is brain dead when you declare Boost they declare Dodge and that makes the real odds of actually getting glued waaaay lower.
Yup. PH15 makes a Normal Dodge succeed 75% of the time, so .25*.55 = 13.75% With how dodging the little bastards works, you don't want both Traps to Boost at the same time. Either they both hit or they both get dodged. I think you'd have to get dirty and have your Traps set such that someone cannot move into Boost range of the traps on their first Move.
Of course. But ideally you set it up so that he can't set off both in a single move action, which isn't hard to do, so he has to Move-Dodge twice, which is two orders he isn't spending murdering the crap out of your back line. If you also have a camo marker that is quite likely to be your Daoying hacker nearby as well that makes the choice even harder. When faced with that kind of inefficiency most players would question whether its worth it or not. Its all about forcing bad choices, not necessarily just crushing them in ARO.
I feel like this needs to be reinforced a little just in case some folks are missing it - two orders worth of offensive action taken off the pointy end of an alpha strike (i.e. after the enemy has invested multiple orders reaching a position from which they can attack) is highly valuable. And because madtraps represent total mobility kills in the way that, say, a generic mine wouldn't to a model like Achilles, they're a reliable ablative defence, even if the actual odds of disabling him are low - the consequences of failure are so high that the Aleph player is near-guaranteed to decline to make an attack that order.
I was about to say that doesn't really work because of stealth they can position to set them off both at once then noticed deployable weapons ignore Stealth. I did not realise that before.
I ran a little local event yesterday. Our vanilla YJ player was constrained from scoring 32 OPs in three rounds only by dint of the restriction on the predator and rescue classifieds stopping you from going above 10 in a round. Feels pretty safe to say at this point that vanilla YJ is, indeed, viable.
Was that in doubt? XD Also as some pointed the madtraps are worth for orders spend by your oponent. Ofc Achilles can sidge easly a madrap but then it becomes one or two orders of move dodge insted of move move. That why i find Xi Zhuang one of the the best die fores unit. Specislist, deffens of zone, not bad at close range shooting and usually my datatracker when i need someone in midtable.
I’ve had my doubts. Though it might be less the force and more of my bad ability to use them. I tried vanilla over and over again and have yet to win against a sectoral with link teams.
Vanilla YJ isn't lacking in link team breaking tools... I've broken quite a few but I've also had a lot of practice doing so. Sometimes people just don't gel with a faction. Doesn't mean the faction is bad just means it's not the right fit for that person.
I don't have them exactly, but they were very similar to Plebian's lists but with more monks. He also likes Sun Tze and the Hsien HMG.
Ok, I've managed to reconstitute them. The event played 12xp spec ops, and the scenarios were Highly Classified, Comms Center and Firefight. Firefight ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65) HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZHANSHI (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Doctor, Engineer, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) GROUP 2 3 6 4 SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Highly Classified, Comms Centre ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 5 ZHANSHI (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Doctor, Engineer, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) MÓWÁNG (NCO) Red Fury, Akrylat-Kanone / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 52) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) GROUP 2 4 5 3 SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
What is your opinion on the Pheasant KHD in Vanilla? It does look a bit expensive, but for me it fills a weird niche of CoC and KHD which I never manage to implement in my list otherwise. The Haidao slot is already filled by the MSV2 Sniper variant, Tai Sheng CoC is too expensive without a fire team and the Mowang already fills the NCO role for me. Free Agent is the cherry on top because it means I have the Haidao and the Pheasant KHD as a very compact second CG that can freely swap into group one once the Kuang Shi are dead.
Wow - I miss the KHD profile on the Pheasant, it slips my attention - thx @Knauf I am not sure how to make good use of it, but if you can use repeater he can act vs. some enemy hackers. The downside is, even a killer hacker lives dangerous on the battlefield, especially in reactive turn and than you loose your CoC
I' don't think making your chain of command vulnerable to hacking attack is a good idea, however it might be an interesting option if you plan for a last turn objective rush where you won't need to do much fighting but could use cybermask to avoid mines. Some missions also have bonuses for hacker, and pushing buttons with 2 dices on 17 is much better than 1 dice on 14, especially when you're short in orders.
You can't hack a Cybermasked KHD and you can't hack a Discover attempt. Granted, 34 points is a LOT of points to sink into this safety net, but if you think KHD on an LT/CoC is a vulnerability then you need to face Tunguska more often.
The pheasant definitely isn’t something you just throw in. But for some missions and the way you build the list I think you can leverage their skillset
How do you approach the infamous Kamau Sniper? My initial idea was to take away his FT bonus by killing another team member with smoke + MSV 2 Haidao before engaging him, to even the odds a bit. Without access to White Noise/Albedo there seems to be very little in Vanilla YJ to ourtight contest him. Hsien HMG + Nimbus is probably the best bet we have, but it takes up so many points ...
