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Is Vanilla Yu Jing viable?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Zerooness, May 13, 2019.

  1. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    Is generic Yu Jing viable or should you better resort to a sectorial? Please state your opinions.
     
  2. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Hell yes!

    Tiger soldiers are amazing,
    We now have he best LT in the game (Daoying) Guilang are great, Daofei is great, Su Jian rambo is great, smoke supporting marksman ship Rui Shi is great, Ninja killer hacker is great, Hac tao is amazing.

    We can do the Ariadna camo game to a small degree but with elite heavy infantry as well! The camo could be a Libertos minelayer, or it could be a Daofei! We have cheap orders - Kuang Shi, great warbands, such flexibility.

    I've ran Vanilla Yu Jing for nearly two years until IA came out, I'm only too happy to go back after playing IA for a year!

    We have so many great rambo pieces backed up by cheap orders. Just so much flexibility. I personally think that having more board control is better than the raw power of link teams, I enjoy multiple threat vectors and just having options.


    I miss playing units like Tiger Soldiers, Guilang and the Daofei quite a bit. We have more profiles since I last played vanilla that make it even stronger than IA in my opinion. And you can still utilise NCO in vanilla for even more order spam.
     
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  3. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  4. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Yes.
     
  5. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    Vanilla yu jing is shit hot, heaps of 5 point chain rifles, guilangs, great choice of beat stick HI.
     
  6. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    Hell yes we can

    List 1──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) DÀOFĚI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 55) GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) KǍNRÈN Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 29) LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) 5.5 SWC | 298 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
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  7. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    marksmanship rui shi?? I thought the same but i still get the feeling we pay too much for our troops and the linkteams are kinda needed to make that even. Iss has very nice order spam with the kuangshi ava8 and the IA can easily make a limited insertion list with 12+ orders through LT l2 and tactical awareness and then spend these extra orders on the linkteams.
     
  8. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    I'd run that! It would be a nice change of pace from IA.
     
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  9. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    When you give your opponent courtesy list with 3 Sun Tze and 3 rui shi only
     
  10. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    I whipped this up to see what I would do with vanilla these days before I saw your post actually, you don't need a million orders if the orders you use are high quality. I think link teams can be a crutch actually, it may force you to think more laterally and be a little more subtle in your play.

    With this list you basically are able to put assisted fire on the rui shi and drop smoke with Shaolin for free, due to LT lv2 and impetuous monks.

    VANILLA MK2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    HAC TAO HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 68)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    5.5 SWC | 295 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  11. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    T
    hey would know you don't have Sun Tze though since you won't be using his Strategos levels. Better to use the Kanren as an assault hacker kanren for bait.
     
  12. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    yea im kind of a new player so i priorities order. "quality orders" are a thing im not confident with ^^ shouldve said that earlier
     
  13. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    As a new player something like the Hac Tao HMG is a high quality order and fairly straightforward for you to use. He can easily best link teams unless if they don't have MSV, and even then he will do okay. Same with the assisted fire Rui Shi shooting through smoke.
     
  14. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    I know. Its sole purpose is trolling. When II'm using kanren in normal lists, I always just change his loadout to confuse opponents.
     
  15. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Short answer: Yes.

    We have arguably the best selection of both Lieutenants and Heavy Infantry across all of the factions in this game:
    Sun Tze is basically the embodiment of Lieutenant anti-shell games, he's as obvious as it gets but also so goddamn durable it generally ends up not mattering whether your enemy knows he is the Lieutenant or not, and only the Avatar is a more obvious LT in the game. As for the Daoying LT, particularly the Hacker... it's a source of effectively order-free Supportware in a faction with great REMs that carry Repeaters, one of if not the best AD troop in the game in the Tiger, two amazing NCO options and soon to be with 17 Heavy Infantry units that will be more than happy to get Fairy Dust, in addition to being a relatively easy to protect Lieutenant too.
    And as I have mentioned, we have soon to be 17 Heavy Infantry units out of whom only 4 are widely considered to be bad or near-bad, whilst the remaining 13 have varying levels of ''They're good enough'' to ''Behold the almighty legendary Su-Jian!''

    Beyond that we have some of the better REMs in the game, the Rui Shi and the Lu Duan, alongside the arguably best AD unit in the game, the Tiger, as well as pretty decent Skirmishers and Warbands/Kuang Shi.

    It isn't the easiest faction to play, subtlety and good area control/defense are not our strong suits ( Albeit we can try to do these things, we're just not very remarkable at them. ).

    And we have the best Empire-
     
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  16. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    dont want to split beans but im new to inf, startet with haqq didnt really enjoyed it and now oen of the choices for me is going with yujing. What i dont really understand are there strengh, i get that they have the mist HI but quantity doesnt make quality and for example mobile brigada outshine pointwise with similar stats some of yujings HI models. I already discovered that you either take a strong profile or a specialist, but in most cases both are solid choices to play with. They have some elite troops wich exceeds the normal elite profile like the hac tao but they cost as much as a TAG costs, for example the magbhari guard cost less and got better weapons and wounds. So what exactly is the strengh because i see alot of them doing good in other factions doing better. I do t want to upset any yujing player btw thats my disclamer :p
     
  17. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    The strength... literately is just a high saturation of good HI units.
    That, and a lot of unit roles are tied up in among our HI or are often better done among our HI. T:

    DISCLAIMER: I am known to be highly biased in favor of Heavy Infantry, and I will make no attempt to hide the fact I simply love the adorable lethal things. So take whatever I said about them with all the salt you've found in this forum.

    Outside of the Tiger Soldier and Rui Shi/Lu Duan, all of our actually good gunfighters ( I know Kanrens and Guilangs are decent at gunfighting with their peers, but they're not going to be any form of decent attack unit when you need to tackle something above their weight class, I'd assume. ) are our HI.

    The Neurocinetic Yan Huo is one of our more notable defensive pieces as well. Tai Sheng, Zhencha and Haidao are known to be rather decent specialist units, whilst Daofei and Crane Hackers are also deemed rather decent as well. Sun Tze is by far one of, if not the second or tied first best Lieutenant in the entire game due to his ludicrous durability, additional Command Token, extra order generation and the ability to guarantee the deployment for the match goes either mostly your way or entirely your way.

    And the fact we have so many of them really only brings us the advantage of us being able to pick from them at a whim most of the time: the costs between a Yan Huo, Su-Jian, Mowang, Hsien, Crane and Daofei HI differ only about ~10 points, and each of these can be actual legitimate threats:
    The Cranes are both decent enough gunfighters ( BS13 Spitfires are decent enough when in proper rangebands. ) and depending on which profile is taken, either great for hunting down enemy camo infiltrators ( Automatic success Sensor Skill checks and automatic success Discover rolls up to 8'' VS regular Camo. Couple that with the MULTI-Rifles Shock ammo to also ruffle the feathers of Aleph infiltrators with their NWI. ), is a pretty good speacialist by HI specialist standards ( You can go worse than a WIP14 BTS6 AHD with some basic decency in guns. ) or just being a reliable enough gunfighter ( X-Visor Spitfires at BS13 again. ) coupled with him just not being something many units would want to get within 8'' of due to the Dual Nanopulsers and high competence in CC if they can't guarantee winning out against him.

    Hsien are the posterboys of MSV2+Smoke shenanigans: got an HMG, got MSV2 and got two sources of smoke in faction to abuse. I doubt anybody dares call them poor units by most margins. It's hard to go wrong with a Hsien usually.

    Daofei used to be the only Camo+Infiltration Heavy Infantry units in the game ( There are two now. And they are nearly exclusively ours barring the AVA 1 Dahshat Zhencha. ) and it's sheer fear factor comes from both the fact that unassuming Camo marker can be a humble mine or Guilang OR an ARM4 BS13 Heavy Infantry unit ready to kill stuff and the fact it's a Heavy Infantry unit that has a Marker State and starts upfield and in position to let loose.

    Mowang are really solid gunfighters ( BS13+Mimetism is great. ) in addition to being really durable with the ability to bring SWC cheap loadouts alongside better order efficiency if your brought a Level 2 Lieutenant... which is usually the case if you didn't bring Sunny T. He's a simple but reliable brick: sturdy and hardy to crack all but the firmest of craniums.

    Yan Huo are very narrow purposed units: you need a TAG sized gun and you get a TAG sized gun. Ironically good for zoning actually: nothing will ever want to

    And then there is the Su-Jian... speed, mobility, stealthiness by way of 8'' Cautious Movement, durability, accuracy alongside with solid guns and even a flamethrower and panzerfaust as two cherries on top. Considered one of, if not the best HI unit in the game due to it's ability to rapidly dictate the terms of the positioning of near every engagement it can be in. Being able to tank two hits and still chug along is nice too.

    Ofcourse, I ought to mention our most expensive HI too in the form of the Hac Tao: BS14 HMG with TO Camo and high ARM. Seldom should a FTF roll be not in your favor with this guy between surprise shot, TO Camo and most units in the game having a BS below 14. Also has a nice KHD profile and, whilst it's not as good as the PanO Swiss in this aspect, a TO HI with an ML is an expensive but VERY painful ARO roadblock the enemy probably didn't plan for.

    And that's only 7 of our HI.
    Before I end up writing a long-form essay, here's a quick recap on some of the remainder:
    Sun Tze is a great Lieutenant and can help dictate the terms of deployment.
    Zhenchas are for all intents and purposes pretty great infiltrating camo specialists that ease the burden on the Guilangs low AVA and have some interesting camo shell game and gunfight potential.
    Haidao are a newcomer to the block of amazing MSV2 bearing units, this time in the form of an MSV2 MULTI-Sniper, and are also decent Engineers when you don't want a squishy Mech-Engineer and the KHD is our our cheapest KHD. Also, personally, the Red Fury seems interesting since it's our cheapest Burst 4 gun on something that isn't a mercenary or a Zhanshi/CG.
    Tai Sheng is a very versatile specialist/gunfighter/NCO HI.
    Wu Ming bring some interesting and slightly exotic weapon options to the table, like the two Duo profiles, our cheapest HRL, the FO+BSG and the ever popular MULTI-Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher.
    Zuyong are the backbone HI. They're in no way flashy. They are basic and reliable and affordable and that is why people love them.

    Kind mention to the much maligned Liu Xing too: he isn't as bad as people say, but he is a serious victim of the concept of poor match-ups. Generally speaking, he's great at punishing those that skimp on setting up an even modest form of repeater and infowar network, as that leaves them open to a Zuyong sized HI boye coming after them inside their own deployment zone. Can also qualify for a lot of classifieds, but taking him is always a gamble on hoping you won't have to deal with substantial infowar defenses.

    The TL;DR would be that whilst other factions can get by without even touching their HI for the most part, for YJ and it's sectorials it's generally the outlier lists that don't bring any HI, whilst the norm is usually taking at least 2, with some going as far as 6 at times I find.
     
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  18. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    If i understand it right, you mean that Yu jing's strength is having a HI for every role? but you can take only up to a maximum of lets say 5 because they cost a lot, starting 30+.
    Edit: i mean 5 sound alot but that would be 5 zuyongs and you would already have 150 points spend
     
  19. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    It's one of our strengths and our most pronounced one at that.

    Also, I'd say taking 5 or so HI isn't as unreasonable as it first seems.
    Pretty sure @daboarder can say as much, at least, judging by this, rather informative if you want to use HI in general, thread here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/a-primer-on-tactical-armoured-gear-operations.805/

    But YJ has some other strengths beyond HI, even if they are not as pronounced:

    Tiger Soldiers are one of the best Combat Jump troops in the game, owing mostly to their high BS of 13 and Mimetism.

    Daoying Hackers are one of the best Lieutenants in the game, being able to spend one of their LT Orders to put up a Supportware program of your choice ( Many of which are very beneficial to us. We like HI, and HI like Fairy Dust. We like Lu Duans and Rui Shis, and they sure love to have some Assisted Fire. Tiger Soldiers are amazing, but you know what is more amazing? A Tiger Soldier with Guided Jump active. ) and then using the second to go back into a snug and safe camo state. Can also fuel some orders into our NCO troops if you don't need the programs. And they make for great last turn hail mary objective runners with their extra orders.

    Not sure how great of an advantage this is, but we also have exclusive access to MadTraps: they're like CrazyKoalas, but with Adhessive ammo opposed to DAM13 Shock.

    Shaolins are nice. Cheap warbands are neat.

    Our skirmishers are pretty good too:
    Kanren are pretty interesting and some people even swear by how good they can actually be. Neat overall.
    Ninjas are arguably our best source for KHDs in Vanilla, so they have a nice role in killing off Bobby the Fusilier Hacker so he doesn't annoy, again, our vast amount of hackables.
    And Guilang are just amazing: they can brawl it with any other Camo Skirmisher like nobodies business thanks to their MSV1, they have two good specialist profiles in the FO and AHD, they're still one of our better sniper pieces I'd dare say ( I'd actually call them tied with the Haidao even. And before he was a thing I'd call the Guilang our downright best sniper. ). They even have a Minelayer profile! They do have a big weakness in their low AVA of 2, but the Zhencha can help alleviate the need to take a specialist Guilang and save one AVA for them.

    Our two combat REMs, the Lu Duan and Rui Shi are some of the best in the game: the Lu Duan is the only one to have a marker state ( Only Holoechos though. ) and has some nice equipment in the form of a Heavy Flamethrower, MSV1 and a Mk12, whilst the Rui Shi is an anecdotally cheap MSV2 Spitifre with ludicrous speed. And both have Repeaters, so you can hack through them AND no matter where they are, they can be buffed with Suportware ( Remember the Daoying? ).

    And last but certainly not least is our access to Kuang Shi: tied for the cheapest regular order in the game! 5 points a piece with a 13 point + 0.5 SWC down payment to get access to them ( You need the Celestial Guard with a Kuang Shi Control Device. Happily enough, this same Celestial Guard is one of our two sources of Smoke grenades! ). 5 orders, 33 points. They're part of the reason why people don't break them at the cost of our HI units, since a Kuang Shi is not hard to fit into a list, UNLESS you're playing with a single combat group: but even then, a single BSG or a couple Chain Rifle Kuang Shi are sometimes plausible to insert.
     
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  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Sure it is! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MONSTRUCKER (360º Visor) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    ARMAND (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 42)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    MIRANDA ASHCROFT Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 20)
    JÄGER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Joking aside, yes I think they are. I should say now they are. Before IA, after Uprising, they sucked.