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Is this the state of things?!

Discussion in 'News' started by Blakhart, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I had a conversation with two new guys last week and they said they did C1. I told them great! Neither one of them played the game before. But I told them I'd give them demos but mainly a simple version of N4. They were completely cool with that. I feel C1 is fantastic for those just jumping into the game and have never played before. But if you have someone that can show you or already knows N4 it's okay to just jump in.

    I do think it's fantastic for those who have Zero knowledge of the game. But if you already have someone that knows N4, i'd encourage jumping into that instead.
     
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  2. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree. Funny enough I've been teaching some friends N4 rather than starting them on C1 like i did myself, and generally I start with Limited Insertion lists, no fireteams, no command tokens, and no Loss of Lieutenant... I realized the other day that this was essentially ALMOST Code One rules.
     
  3. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    In mid-September I am running g a six person C1 tournament. Two of the players are brand new. Two have been learning for a bit. And two are veteran infinity players. I’ll be interested to see how it goes and will let you know.
     
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  4. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

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    The pount of C1 isn’t the simpler rules but the simpler roster. For both the players and distributors.
     
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  5. KrazyIvan

    KrazyIvan Member

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    Here's my two cents...

    I had a vague interest in Infinity, even picked up a couple of interesting individual models - but I never really got into the universe or rules. It's not carried by any of the FLGS and I don't know of any Infinity players locally. And to be honest - I had little idea where to start, and the WALL of books/minis/etc I saw at conventions was a bit intimidating...

    C1: Kaldstrom had interesting enough looking minis, at a decent enough pricepoint, and presented itself as an entry point; so I purchased it during my CV-19 days paint and putter with. And I finally realized some of what I was missing with Infinity....

    Now - most of my gaming crew AREN'T interested in a game with the full tactical "Crunch" of N4. They simply don't have the patience to deal with it. But a slightly lighter game? Yeah - running through the CodeOne missions with a few of my crew, we have gotten a little traction for the game/universe and minis....

    ...Enough to make me spend more on Infinity in the last year than any other individual game.

    Now, I strongly doubt I will EVER play a full game of Infinity N4. (I did buy it, but frankly I bought it for the lore book...). I have no real interest in the tourney scene (I burned out on those in my 40k days); and other than my crew - I *still* know of no other local Infinity players....

    But C1 was effectively a "marketing success" in my case, because I CERTAINLY bought a large amount of Infinity product, and will likely play C1 a few more times...
     
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  6. Arschbombe

    Arschbombe Well-Known Member

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    My overall experience was a little similar to yours. I had been exposed to Infinity back in the N2 days as one of the stores I played 40k in carried it. I never saw anyone play it and nobody in our 40k group was willing to take the plunge on it.

    Fast forward to 2020 and I'd been out of 40k for years. I had a regular online opponent for X-wing and he was getting a little burned out with the lack of new releases to shake things up. So I suggested we experiment with Kill Team.

    We played that a few times and then he asked if I was interested in Infinity. I said I was and we played Code One on TTS a few times.

    And same. I bought a bunch of stuff including N4 and things like JSA that aren't in Code One yet.

    I fully intend to play N4 at some point. There's a group about an hour away that has started having regular meetups again. I just have to actually build and paint some stuff....
     
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  7. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    For what it’s worth, my 40k and N4 tournament experiences could not be more different. Might be worth trying one.
     
  8. Arschbombe

    Arschbombe Well-Known Member

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    Would you attribute the better experience at Infinity tournaments to the game or the players?
     
  9. KrazyIvan

    KrazyIvan Member

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    Eh - I somehow doubt that - the chatter I see on these forums is JUST as rabid - if not moreso - than the chatter I used to see on the 40k Tournament forums regarding optimaxing your lists.... :laughing:

    Besides - you kinda need to play often enough to be comfortable with the rules if you want to play in tournaments...
    See my comments re: lack of opponents...

    I'm not too worried about it... Again - I've been liking C1, I've now purchased all the N3 and N4 books to catch up on lore, and I've purchased... um... too many?... err ENOUGH... yeah... ENOUGH minis to paint for quite a while....
     
  10. anaris

    anaris Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Code would have been perfect with:
    • Point divided by 5 instead of 10 to provide sensible difference between some profiles (drone, line trooper, medics costing the same is troublesome for beginner)
    • Less profile to set clear role for each unit to ease understanding
    • Different table of content and layout between code one rules and N4. N4 should follow a more technical/alphabetical order instead of the thematically order of Code One.
     
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  11. Padre

    Padre Well-Known Member

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    Despite playing Infinity for years, I switch between N4 and C1. Code One is a great introduction to Infinity: streamlined, easier to pick up and build lists, while keeping the core experience intact. And it's a refreshing change of pace for more experienced players. Essentially, C1 is like a good board game and N4 is like a good board game with all expansions added. Sometimes you just want the core experience without add-ons.
     
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  12. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    The C1 rulebook was a bust for me. I happened to have a friend with prior experience in Kill Team and Necromunda interested in getting into Infinity at the time. When the C1 rulebook came out, I sent him the PDF so we could learn at the same time. He hated it, thought it was confusing and way too complicated. And I saw pretty much that same reaction on a couple of YouTube channels, and I thought myself it wasn’t a particularly great improvement in terms of clarity compared to N3.

    The C1 rules, on the other hand, worked fine: I simply ended up teaching my friend the game, and we played quite a bit and had a very good time. I don’t know if he’d ever have been interested in N4 (we’re both expats and he ended up moving away), but certainly the scope of the C1 rules were fine for him to grasp.

    Here’s my opinion: I don’t think you can make an introductory ruleset that’s 100 pages long that reads like a reference just like N3/N4 do, with all the same mistakes in bringing up concepts before they are properly introduced, providing weird examples that bring little clarity, using a whole bunch of color codes for no good reason, spread the actual rules between the main text and various colored boxes, providing no indication on where you are within the book and skipping on a proper index… And actually appeal to new players.

    When it comes to introducing complex concepts, clarity in presentation matters. I can see the efforts that have been made (in the numerous visual examples for one thing), and I’m sure it looks perfectly fine to any Infinity veteran, but C1 is just not as accessible as it should be. It’s fine if you have someone to teach the game to you, and in that case I believe it does the job. But if the goal was to really expand the player base, it needs to be more approachable for people who just don’t have anyone who can do that for them.
     
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  13. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    First time I heard about C1 I thought they were going as Mantic sci-fi (Warpath vs Deadzone) or Battletech (Classic vs Alpha Strike). Same (or part of the range of) miniatures, different rules to reach different styles of gaming, and reach more customers. Instead N4 and C1 are like twins with different hairdos, one cut shorter than the other, but pretty much the same. Wiki demostrated it via the toggle button: the rules are pretty much the same, so any problematic part (as in rule, explanation, examples, or whatever) that is shared, affects both games.

    [​IMG]
    It would be even more different haircut (color too?), and t-shirt with the C1 and N4 logos.
     
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  14. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    I will say that I self-taught myself C1 with no prior Infinity experience, though I'm in the forums now because this is where I came initially to get help with my issues... including the aforementioned rulebook bugbears. There are definitely a few things in the rulebook layout and wording that are sub-optimal.

    My biggest gripe is that C1, in retrospect feels too close to N4 to justify being its own game. It's contains like 90% of the universal rules for N4 (if you don't count things like some unit-specific skills that don't apply to all armies in N4 anyway) and by the time you've read 100 pages, might as well read a few more and be able to play N4. Not sure if there's a solution for this but I'm not totally certain where C1 is supposed to sit... whether it's meant to be a full game enjoyed on its own or a gateway into N4 (in that sense it was successful with me) - probably a bit of both.

    One thing that actually comes in the Operation Kaldstrom box which I'm not sure exists in the C1 pdf rules or elsewhere on the internet is a paper book with like half a dozen introductory scenarios that gradually introduce new rules, concepts, and units. It's probably a better way to learn than just reading the C1 book cover-to-cover. I'm personally not a fan of really simplified starter scenarios (e.g. 3 Zhanshi vs 3 Fusiliers is too basic to keep someone interested, I think) but for people who like to slip in more gradually it works okay.
     
    #54 Lawson, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
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  15. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    There's the Quick-start rules in the download section https://infinitytheuniverse.com/resources that has 8 pages, and that's probably what you should use to have someone read before a demo game.
    (direct pdf link: https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/codeone/quick-start-rules/quick-start-rules-codeone-en.pdf )

    But I don't think those intro missions are anywhere besides the kadstrom/crimson stone boxes. The only missions online for code1 are the dire foes ones under https://infinitytheuniverse.com/resources/codeone
     
  16. anaris

    anaris Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    C1 brings it own benefits by getting rids of over complexity (sectorial, fireteam, command token, ...) and reduced lineup but :
    • It was too lazy on the lineup/profile/cost. Getting new player confused over too many profile, unit focus, profile usefulness (basic unit lieutenant, drone vs. Basic unit, medkit cost...)
    • It shared measured unit, Tag raid and it's tiles could have been the good time to provide a tile measure system
    • N4 took back the C1 books organisation first 60 pages are almost the same. Which rendersthe C1 book useless and means that the N4 books is useless during a game as it lacks an alphabetical order and a glossary to find rules when needed.
    • You can arguably make the case about a handfull of C1 rules that could be removed without impact (paramedic, lieutenant, ...)
    • Dedicated scenarios with more flavor element
     
    #56 anaris, Jan 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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