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Is this list bad?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Natsymir, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I was almost giddy with excitement when I came up with this list, having had great success before with Limited Insertion lists built on the nasty combination of Tarik Mansuri and Akbar Doctor (Tarik's got a Cube, so the Akbar doctor can safely bring him back up to two wounds), and I've had similar success with my Maghariba Guard, so I was like..."[curse word]...I can combine the two".

    But the list's failed, twice in a row. The first game, Tarik died in the first round, and Maggie was locked down by hacking AROs that took too long to untangle. The second game, Tarik again died in the first round, this time from insanely bad luck (which is always a problem for Limited Insertion lists, as they've got no redundancy), and Maggie got outmaneuvered by hacking AROs and terrain she couldn't squeeze through.

    Both games, my strategy's been to support Tarik on the left flank with the Akbar doctor, having the Lasiq sniper try and hold down a limited but good fire line in the middle, and having Maggie try to rush up the right flank supported by the engineer, the killer hacker and the two repeater remotes. The Chain of Command Farzan has spent the entire game prone on a roof, she's only there to cover for Tarik's existence failure.

    What do you think? Can this list succeed? How would you play it? Or improve it? (You can not remove Tarik or Maggie).

    [​IMG] Noor al-Donya Quadrant Control Crazyballs
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] JANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 55)
    [​IMG] FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, I'd say that your list has two big problems: first, it is table density (the Maghariba has a hard time moving around, as you say, and you should notify the organization if there is no single avenue for your tag to cross the table), and the second would be Deployment. In limited insertion going first and having something that can take out enemy units has double the value, and for that reason I'd suggest to try and add a Fiday as long as you play generic or Hassa. You can even drop a Ragik (the enemy won't be sure if it's a ragik or a TO in the middle of the table) if you are going to use him in the first round.

    Finally, you are playing too conservatively. An engineer for the TAG and the 8pts remote, AND a medic Akbar, both with Nasmats, eat two slots you could be using on offensive troops. Granted, you can't throw troops like in non-LI lists, but you have to weight if the order you need to recover that troop compensates not having that order for next one, two or three turns.
     
  3. Durik

    Durik Well-Known Member

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    I understand that you do not want to remove Tarik from the roster, but think about this option:

    [​IMG] Fine Kebab's'
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)

    5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Kvari performs the same role as Tariq, but costs less points and less size, with the same equal opportunities.
    Mutti is one of the best units in the game, with getting smoke - they have become very useful and multifunctional, if you bring them to the middle of the opponent's table - the jammer will dream your enemies like a terrible dream.
    Dr. Akbar at Yanychar is a useful option, but only in the link. To take it for the sake of functionality Doctor Akbar and heal Tarik - omission on points.
    Farzan - a good skirmish, but it also takes for Tarik's lieut options, so he is not needed.
    Ayyar is a very good killer, with effective weapons and fines to the enemy for single shootings.
    The bazook is simply a cheap and practical AD unit and can act on orders from the second group + use irregular Mutt orders with the help of command tokens.
    Try to play this, use proxy, haqqislam - the army is not about 10 miniatures for 300 points.
     
    Natsymir likes this.
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    @Durik I think he wants a Limited Insertion list, with Tarik and the Maggie... so Tarik + Maghariba + 8 troops (and it has to be generic, because of those two) :S

    Edit: another suggestion might be forsake the Farzan and instead go for Veteran ARO pieces, a Djanbazan, and an Al Fasid with smoke. Then you pick Saladin as Lt for the extra order... and try to reach 11 regulars.
     
    #4 xagroth, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    Natsymir likes this.
  5. Durik

    Durik Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] 10 infamous kebabs
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG / 2 Heavy Pistols. (2 | 79)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] AL-DJABEL Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW, Knife. (0 | 35)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)

    5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    If on a limit, here:
     
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  6. Gabarra

    Gabarra Member

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    My two cents on the matter:
    Haqqislam is probably the faction that suffers most with limited insertion, we have so many good cheap options that don't build well into that concept. Many of those are irregular which just makes it worse. Thus I wouldn't try for an all-comers list, rather mission specific ones.

    That said, I've the feeling that both Tarik and Maggie require many orders to function, as they are far less dangerous in the reactive turn, and the large silhouette mames them hard to hide. Then you got the Janissary for Akbar Doc, whose only beneficiary is Tarik. Likewise, the Najjarun for Maggie... Ain't saying your list is bad, but for my play style don't think it would work. At least, not with Tarik and Maggie and limited insertion.

    This is what I would go for, if I could drop Maggie:
    [​IMG] Haqqislam──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] TARIK MANSURI Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 55)
    [​IMG] FASID Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] JANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] HAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    I've added Saladin for an extra regular order, which allows for the irregular hunzakut to add versatility, and can confuse your opponent as to who is your CoC farzan. The janissary should be near the Al Fasid who is going to be the anvil against which Tarik's hammer will strike. Lastly there's a hafza to make your deployment even less transparent.
    Should you wish to downgrade the lasiq sniper to a TR bot, that hafza could forego being a FO to carry a HRL.
     
    #6 Gabarra, Dec 26, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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  7. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    I completely disagree. Ariadna has way more problems than we do and my own experience with Limited Insertion has shown that Haqqislam is quite good at Limited Insertion. Vanilla and QK have the easiest time while Hassassin might have a bit of difficulty but then again, Hassassin has that delicious Asawira Haris that has many degrees of adjustment to make it fit into lists.

    There are a variety of ways to run a Limited Insertion Haqqislam list and a lot of toys you can play with. I have had tons of success with Tarik and Maghariba Guard in Limited Insertion. I usually rely on Saladin in these lists which is why Saladin is usually my go to LT in a Limited Insertion list. 11 orders, plus controlling your opponents deployment are key assets in such a list and allows for Haqqislam to control the battle from the get go. To me this gives vanilla Haqqislam the best advantage in Limited Insertion but we will see what Ramah Taskforce brings to the table once it is released.
     
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  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    To be fair, is the Ariadna Sectorials the ones with trouble on Limited Insertion, of which USArianda is the most limited of all. And the solution is to use models you don't usually play, meaning that some people might prefer to have a more elite faction (like CA or Aleph) for LI tournaments, rather than having 10 models of his usual faction aside for LI games.
     
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  9. Gabarra

    Gabarra Member

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    Interesting, maybe its my lack of experience showing. Usually, I see plenty of spetsnaz and minute men in Ariadna, which honestly is not often at all...
    Anyway, I'd be very interested in taking a look at one such list, and your commentary on playing it.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  10. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    Tags & other tough hackable stuff really likes being supported by minelayers.

    Muyibs are great for this because they come with some particularly nice mines.
     
    Natsymir likes this.
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