In all seriousness, its more a handfull of tweaks to mostly fireteam composition for the non obersvance stuff, but a proper look into the observance stuff (excluding Kusanagi). however I feel the main issues with observance models are more the systematic issues with MI in general that need to be looked into, with the profiles themselves getting some minor tweaks.
I mean, I prefer Bakunin to Corregidor so far in N4 myself. Linked MSV1 (and crazy multi model WB) is a big frakking deal in N4. If they just tweaked the Reverends a bit (all Reverends count as Moiras for fireteam composition, some individual love for individual Reverend profiles, and some cheaper Reverend Initiates similar to Cheerkillers that could also go in those links), made Taskmasters link with Moderators and Morlocks as in the fluff, and fixed Sin Eaters (delete neurocentics, make it just total reaction) they'd be perfect in my eyes. But theyre pretty competitive as is. You just don't take the above things that don't work if you want to win.
Both, sort of, but the Observance portion especially. Trying to build lists out of 30-point models with only 1 wound apiece is... *tricky* Moderators/Riot Grrls/Ubercommandos are fine, but it's kind of sad to have an entire subsection of your list not be usuable. Bakunin Observance needs a rework, though not as bad as ISS does IMO.
The lizard is a fine basic MBT. Good value for the points, as there is no such thing as a bad MBT in N4. Sin Eaters are a observance unit.
The Lizard looks like shit when you line it up next to a Raicho which is a good looking MBT and has had actual profile reworks in recent memory. For 1pt difference the Raicho ditches the shitty GL and picks up: Heavy Rocket Launcher, Veteran, ECM-3 Hacking, Immunity (Critical), Gizmokit heals on 12s instead of 11s. 1 fuckin point difference. Pretty sure all that shit doesn't cost 1 point plus the 2 points you get back for dropping the GL (Squalos profiles show the cost on the HGL replacement). I'm pretty confident in saying the Lizard is over costed.
I've seen the following two gripes about Bakunin; Observance has been a bit left behind by new Fireteam and unit design paradigms, and Riot Grrls linking with Moderators is kinda unfluffy. Side-by-side with any other TAG the Lizard is a dumpster fire, but it does its job in Bakunin passably.
With a straight face tell me the Lizard isn't paying the incorrect points for its shit 2 2 SZALAMANDRA Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / CC Weapon. (2 | 72) SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0) LIZARD MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / CC Weapon. (1.5 | 72) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0) Even ignoring CB's lapse in sanity where HRMC and Multi HMGs actually do cost the exact same points despite one of those guns being far superior to the other (it's the same on the Yan Huo) the Szally is paying the same cost for a superior statline where they get +3 BTS over the Lizard.
About the lizzard.. more than "plain better" it could have something more "nomadesque". In the lore, it says somewere that each lizzard is somewhat unique, because their engineers get creative and compete in dessign, weirdness, tech and so, so it could have some kind of metachemisty or booty I have that feeling too. CB said that MI were getting special look into, but I have the feeling that observancy got the minimum look. They got the multi rifle discount, the hacking device discount, and a new skill, whithout the look into the skillset point changes of even n3 (religious troop was a payd skill in n2... In n3 became a discount skill but observancy never got that discount). So moiras (because they are the only ones that got something) got a little skill revision, a little gear check (nanopulser), and the fast fireteam dessign route... Over a n2 costed profile. The problem I see is not the n4 treatment, but the lack of a proper n3 revision. The other observancy untits didn't even get a n4 check (or maybe CB thinks they are ok?). And they are not the only MI that got this treatment. It is inevitable that a program is better than other. The only way is to make them the same profile, and even then, it would be used the most crippling effect. Just an assumption, if you have 3 programs, all with the same possibilities to be put on the enemy but with the different effects of imm, iso and wound. Reset apply the same malus to imm or iso and wound can only be applied against hackers (as for now). Which one would you use against a HI? In that situation, imm is more crippling than isolation most of the time. That's why its reset malus needs to be smaller in the end. The programs instead could be the checked on though. My coment was a supposition, "if CB were to...". Maybe it was not the correct way to put it, sorry for my english. What I meant is that, IF appeared a program that gave imm easily, then, because it is a more crippling effect, people will complaint much more than now. Perception is key here: if an HI is dead, is out of the table and the player just asume it. If the I HI is imm (or iso), the mini is there, remembering that fact to the player and making it more constant... Making him to think of ways to free it and so. Some people see it as unfun events I mostly agree. But I think that a few KHD could gain an extra program like skullbuster, not all KHD, and maybe otherw gain access to q redrum version (maybe with less damage so it is an alternative to trinity). The +3 bonus on trinity I think it is there to substitute the loosing of firewall ignoring, and I think it is ok I am not sure it is strong enough to "invalidate" miniatures, but it is clearly estronger than the other effects because the malus to resset Nerfing oblivion to b1 would make active hacking again less impactful. Not sure if that is intender. Also, I think it should be more powerfull in active. Remember n2 CC? People saw it as unfulfilling because it needed orders and specialized troopers to get into possition for it then to be a 1vs1 dice. CC had then allready big differences in the attributes. If hacking becomes like that in actice, people who wants to use hacking will be forced to a bigger repeater net to cover bettee reactive, wich would be more unfun for some people. But, if a nerf should appear, I think it can be just a little damage reduction so it is not so easy to apply, bonded with some damage increase to carbonita What would happen if someone were to say things like "hacking has been well implemented, and is balanced with the game", or the likes? I think the amount of engagement depends on how many people differs on thinking, if a lot of people who see the post thinks the same, there will be fewer comments, and viceversa. Do you mean they were not getting mid-tier results? If so, did you check them. Nomads and its sectorials were not even "near" the top factions (0 top 10 if I recall correct in any of the different versions checked, except vainilla split), with only 2 "scores" in any top 1/3 (of 41) of the roster (sorry, don't know how it would be translated). The best "score position" for nomads was that vainilla nomads was 3rd or 4th vainilla faction. Only vainilla ones taking out sectorials. And the other top 1/3 was TJC in limited insertion (don't remember the exact possition, but it was not near top 5, even if they were a little above average). If you mean they were not receiving comments about beign top, maybe is because you missed all the complaints about nerfs to the kriza (even after he suppresive fire), nerfs to the heckler (even after some other better trooper appeared), some rants about TJC beign more HI focused than invencible army (with 2 different HI), some the lot of people that came to the thread about specially TJC not so good status to Talk about how OP they were, or the several comments where TJC opness were put as example in shotting in other subforums. As Stiopa said, isolation, what I mentioned (and I usually do, because its the effect that has to be taken out, and what affects the game) was clearly nerfed. I try to be specific to avoid this kind of missunderstandings, and sometimes, my bad english make it harder. But I also have the feeling you didn't even try to understand my point of view. I know that later I refered to carbonita, it was because someone talking specifically about it with that other part.
A) Raicho is basically the best TAG in N4. Fight me. B) 5 points. Compare like for like. Both have a MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower with CC Weapon profile. C) The HRL profile is really weird and I can't make sense of it. The other two profiles seem consistent with other TAGs and I just can't figure out what about the HRL profile it is CB would want to incentivise. I know Psychoticstorm recently checked with CB the price on the Raicho at request of (I think) Aldo, but still...
I think I made my point clear in this thread, and I already gave warning, stop the personal attacks and insults. I honestly believe you can have the discussion without all the drama.
Ok so, I'm still a little sad that nobody got interested my idea of temporary anti-hacking field akin to albedo, but I think I got a better and much cleaner idea. How about we allow fairy dust in aro? Fairy dust has an unlimited range and we already have a precedent of EVO getting an aro outside it's LoF/ZoC in reaction to a specific action (controlled jump as a reaction to combat jump). So just make fairy dust the same, as a viable aro to a hacking attack on your models anywhere on the battlefield. You could make it more like controlled jump, and make it's effects apply in the same order (but I think it would be too powerful) or as in normal aro - at it's end. It probably won't save an easily hackable prey, but would be great to strengthen defense of elite guys, who might need the extra protection anyway (as in the before-mentioned story of an unhappy crusade). I think it would be pretty good deterrence against too robust alpha-hacks, and would be an option available to almost everyone. Also many people seem to be unexcited about n4 evo. This change would help to reignite the love.
TBH, I think making it a Strategic Use similar to the suppression fire thing is perhaps more interesting. There's so many troopers that need this program active prior to the EVO Hacker being exposed to an ARO and having Fairy Dust be an ARO program doesn't necessarily increase interaction here.
IMM should have the -9 MOD and ISO the -3 MOD. That would pretty much instantly fix the dynamic in between Carbonite and Oblivion. Currently Oblivion hits harder, inflicts the "better" state and the harsher penalty. I also don't see a lot of Hacking Upgrades for Carbonite, sure do for Oblivion. ... did you see the Montesa Tik? 68 points, BS15, HFT, C+, Mimetism, AP HMG, Courage, Rem Pres... you know.
If psychoticstorm was stating it has a fact he'd need a citation, he specifically said that he believes we can, that's an opinion, not a statement of fact. ;-)
I think the Raicho with veteran, +2 ARM, a real Multi HMG and either NCO or HShotty+Dispenser configs is better. Honestly a bit surprised the Montessa is still in MO with the new KotHS and it's not like it's ticking off a TAG-goes-here box, either, due to the Seraph, but that's for a different thread.
