You know perfectly well you don't need anything else the way the game works and the way Nomads can build their fireteams; also you seem to conveniently forget the B6 Kriza, because obviously B doesn't give an advantage to shooting at all. So, yes, they can get PanO level shooting where it matters while still keeping all of their other "faction strengths" (i.e. Hacking, Camo, Skirmishers, midfield pressure, skills and gadgets, great CC, HI pain trains for cheap)
B6 Kriza requires a lot of investment in the fireteam including two sensorbots who can be sniped/templated thanks to their size and thats not Nomads, it is Tunguska, pretty big difference
Exactly, Tunguska plays a lot more like PanO than the rest of Nomads does. I mean if we're judging all of Nomads by a linked Kriza then let's judge all of PanO Hacking based on Scylla.
If Stemplers are an issue due to the size, why not use Jelena and Miranda instead? Besides, Benkei is primarily a Yu Jinger, I think you'll need to explain how a 30 point Hollowman is too expensive for link filler. Though yeah, a Kriza on its own is kinda expensive for what it does.
Wait, so Tunguska doesn't hack? Also, "Tunguska is not Nomads" is a blatant lie Let's say tomorrow Ariadna gets a new Sectorial full of top notch technohackers with a huge repeater coverage while keeping their camo game, wouldn't you feel like Nomads, being "the hacking faction", would feel cheated because now Ariadna can hack as well as they do? This is how lots of other faction's players feel about Nomads
30 points is not a link filler price if we are playing the comparison game, IA does not need to care about LT choice at all while Tunguska does - and you cant hide LT in that Kriza glass cannon superfriends team unless you pay premium for a Grenzer. Going haris for that 6th die will run you bankrupt for points because tunguska is not a cheap sectorial It doesnt - not on the scale of vanilla who project hacking thanks to Morans and have cheap infiltrator HD/KHD in Zeroes Tunguska needs to jump through some hoops with fastpandas from hecklers to get to that point
What about that Hollow Man BS 13 pitcher? Are Hollow Man links not a thing in Tunguska? Genuine question BTW, I have no experience with them.
You can but I dont think you should, defensive/backup securitate team + grenzer sniper + maybe perseus is cheaper and lets you do most of work with hecklers, raoul and puppets and also hides the LT in it and again to shoot those pitchers you need to spend orders (like, survive to your Turn 1) while Moran is already there, being a deterrent to rampaging TAG
They are, and it's not an awful option. Jammer Hecklers are just easier to fit into a list unless you're already running the Hollowman for some reason. So something like this is viable, but you need to compromise significantly to make it work (ie no Engineer or Dr just a Paramedic, only 3 Dep Reps and no ability to reload them, no Smoke and only a single HD). Which is our point: you can't look a one or two profiles in isolation. They simply don't work that way.
Different perspectives. I'd bring 0-1 Stempler and have honestly never seen less than 4 Hollow Men in the link when present. For only 28 points and those stats it is a steal, and I'm personally used to filling my links with similar priced units with lesser stats. And if "LT" choice is going to be the excuse for everything, we could look at ISS instead of picking close to best in class for LT safety... Not that I'd stick my LT in the Core if I didn't have a specific plan for it as it's about as much protection as liability even with the tinbot. Grenzer LT can't Cybermask, after all... No. Just no. That's not comparable at all. First and foremost, those repeaters are on the table at start of the game, Nomads going second aren't going to have that outside a select few units who carry those Repeaters on their person. Second of all, replacing those repeaters if they get destroyed is severely order inefficient and likely very risky. Third of all, placing new repeaters if the initial spots are played around by the opponent is difficult.
Yeah - literally every PanO sectorial has the option for better T1 midfield Repeater coverage than TJC and BJC. And in BJC the best Hacker is a Moderator: a massive WIP13 BTS3. The Tinbot added to them makes them much more resilient, but they're still not slowing down an alpha from pushing through the midfield. The fact that Grrls can link with Moderators IS stupid and I completely agree they should not be able to. TMs please instead.
two Morans prone on rooftops or two deployable repeaters on same rooftops Thats about the same level of turn 0 projection Replacing a dead Moran is not very easy either (I wouldnt run it anyway because mines are better and hacking is overrated but just to prove a point that repeater coverage+a number of different hackers in the list separates good hacking game from bad)
I tend to judge based on single troops or very similar Fireteams. My usual comparison would be Kriza vs. Swiss as single units, or Grenzer+Securitate vs. Bolts for Fireteams. Tunguska seems to run a lot like my NCA save for having improved mobility in basically every way but less efficient cheerleaders and defense, so it makes a fairly good comparison. Generally Tunguska's running around with 1-2 less BS and occasionally a -3 MOD disadvantage against similar NCA troops, but often have +1 Burst and better link options leaving them on a fairly even footing for firepower, favouring NCA due to better MSV access. Also, weirdly, NCA's initial Repeater coverage is better thanks to Peacemakers. The problem is Specialist access and scoring power is nowhere near that level of discrepancy, with Tunguska not only having top-tier Hacking but also accessible Smoke, TO Infiltrator Specialists, fast bikes, cheap forward Camo Specialists and Raoul Spector. And Tunguska isn't even really a meta-topping Sectorial because making use of all that stuff at once is too expensive with the bad cheerleaders, so compromises are necessary (like they should be). Corregidor is as busted as it is because it gets everything but the apex shooting at such a low price, in terms of both points and opportunity. Jazz, their best Hacker for 4pts over a Fusilier Hacker, can go in any link, and I'm the only Sectorial player I know of who doesn't bring one by default. Their midfield Specialist is also their Repeater network and Minelayer, all in one. Their MSV is linkable, they have unhackable Daofei rip-offs and cheap Markers too, all three vision blockers at accessible prices, top-end AD, super-cheap Orders with DTWs, yadda yadda. Even freakin McDoggo. And maybe one or two pieces in the list over 30pts. Who needs a Kriza when the enemy never even gets to see your units during your active turn? And for those who want that Kriza anyway, they can trade away Sixth Sense and a dog for Vanilla's shooting prowess. To be entirely fair, I'm pretty sure Bakunin needs a minor buffing (especially the poor Observance) and Tunguska is right where I'd want it. And the new MO is going too far in terms of compensation; I'd hate to bring a Hacking list to a FatKoTHS fight and the Knight Commander is almost immune to assassination if you put in some effort to hide it. But this all comes back to a point I keep finding myself thinking about; N4 is great, but the army design guys are quickly ruining it with their lack of judgement and restraint.
Yes, but a Moran can dodge and shoot back in case something tries to kill it and the Nomad list will most likely feature Pitchers which the Yu Jing list definitely won't. I would and have run something similar, it's not bad and the minelayer's Repeater and Shock Mine on the same unit makes for good flexibility and the hacking game it offers is actually very beneficial, but this is not the same as having Nomad level repeater coverage. Basically, we've spent 19 pages discussing what Pitchers do to the game and you "drop the bomb" by comparing two things that aren't Pitchers and don't function like Pitchers at all.
Vanilla Nomad lists dont run Pitchers save for Jazz and trying to land those on an unlinked BS11... dont (just run Billie ahead) Tsyklons got powercrept by Vostoks whose offensive power is much more generally valuable than forcing hacking projection
I've seen Moderator Pitchers in Vanilla before, just because it's cheap and landing a Pitcher on 13s is reliable enough over 2 orders that it's almost certainly going to save time walking. I've also seen Interventors, LT and not, and I have a soft spot for Custodier LTs myself despite the points inefficiency due to the extra gunfighting ability and being able to put down Pitchers or White Noise with the LT order. Edit; just caught Interventors not having Pitchers. Coulda sworn they had 'em, need to get some games in again...
Where are the Pitchers? Where are the special programs? Where is the high BTS? Please, I'm sure you can troll better than this And just to repeat my point: if BJC or TJC hacking is not enough for you, you go CJC and are still playing Nomads. You can play almost any style of play/faction identity and still be playing Nomads, and I certainly find it wrong than a single faction can steal the "identity" of several other factions. If Nomads is the hacking and asymmetrical fighting/dirty tricks faction that's totally ok, but then don't make them able to also play the shooting faction, the HI paintrain faction, the busted fireteam faction and the camo faction; let the other factions get the spotlight for something instead of having a Mary Sue faction running around. Or just let all of them be able to do everything with slight differences. Just my two cents
Yeah, okay, I see your point. Kind of the same reason why we've basically shut up about Aleph hacking real early. Probably a strong reason why I rarely see vanilla Nomads (although, I rarely see non-Combined vanilla at all) and why I find vanilla Nomads to be more fun to play against.
