Okay let's be real for a second. I lived in what is a largely Buddhist country for a huge chunk of time. I occasionally saw a Swastika on a map to mark Temples. It was literally the only time I ever saw it used as anything other than a Nazi symbol. I am always going to guess anyone using it is a fascist simply because in countries with Anglo-Saxon Protestant majorities (like the one I live in now), that is much more likely than the alternative.
This is a completely non-issue. The context of the swastika is pretty much always clear. I have seen swastikas as religious symbols, and the association with Nazis did not even occur to me. Police in Germany would not stop a bunch of Hindus if they have swastikas on their clothes. I am happy if the Nazis get in trouble for doing the same. The swastikas look different on them.
There are also the "Securitate". a Romanian secret police that "Under Ceaușescu, the Securitate was one of the most brutal secret police forces in the world, responsible for the arrests, torture and deaths of thousands of people." That being said, do you find insulting that in flames of war you can actually play the SS division "totemkompf" or "hitlerjugen" (that were responsible of thousands of civil deaths). Do you feel offended that there is a superhero movie called "black panther", like the terroristic black supremacy group, resposible for many deaths? I'm Italian, so maybe I have a different view of history than an american History must be remembered, especially the worst part. Because only remembering the worst you can avoid its repetition.
I think the use of the Securitate is quite insensitive as well. I somehow hope that CB just used a latin term, being ignorant about the Romanian unit. No, I dont find it insulting or offensive to use SS and Hitlerjugend in Flames of War. I would find it a bit disturbing to play with them, yes. But it is ok because FoW is a historical setting and those units existed. I once found a SS patch from FoW in a shop and found that quite shocking. That patch would be illegal to wear in Germany. The idea that someone would sow it on just as an FoW player is a bit horrifying to me. CB is creating a fictional universe. There is no reason to use real historical names of units that were responsible for crimes against humanity. It does not add to the game. It is insensitive, especially if the units are not as atrocious in the Infinity universe. But I am repeating myself. As for Black Panther: The comic character is even older than the US organisation, who certainly were not terrorists at all. Marvel has endorsed the Black Panther Liberation Party later on.
Wow. Didn't think I'd get hatemail for complaining about someone doing shitty science that fails Statistics 101: compare like with like. If you want to compare things that are slightly different, you need to have only one point of divergence between the two. In that specific case, the single point of divergence needs to be hetero versus homo. Both family situations otherwise need to be the same, committed relationships lasting for more than 5+ years. If you don't compare like with like, anyone who has had a statistics class will point and laugh at you. I've called Big Data pharmaceutical studies out on the same thing: They did not compare the same strength of druglike chemicals, nor did they compare varying strengths of those said druglike chemicals. As regards the specific claims I made, I suggest you read some of the magazines marketed towards the older homosexuals, and some of the outright rants they go on regarding the [expletives deleted] stupidity of the younger generation regarding what used to be normal preventative measures to minimize the chance of STI. Measures that most sexually-active people (regardless of orientation) take as normal. You know, condoms, going and getting tested together, etc... Hell, I'd wear that on a T-shirt! Uhm... I think you need to review the actions of the 1960s and 70s Black Panther party. Use and threats of violence to change national policy.
EDIT: unneccessarily confrontational Except there is a very good reason for naming certain troops certain historical names. It gives an immediate point of reference in terms of the unit's function, tactics etc.
It also carries historical baggage. It is up to the artist whether that historical baggage is something they desire. If that historical baggage is not something they desire, then it's advisable to change the unit name. In the case of the Kempeitai, well, the new fluff suggests that it was intentional.
And just because it apparently does need to be said here: I don't care who (or what) you screw. But you need to know what behaviors increase various risks, and I think you're fucking delusional if you ignore those risks. If you flirt with me and I'm not interested, I would greatly appreciate it if you stop when I say "sorry, but I'm not interested." And that applies to men and women, equally. For that matter, if I'm flirting with you but you're not interested and I'm not getting your body language, please for the love of all that is holy TELL ME! Preferably before I make an even bigger ass of myself. Please? Two of my best friends from the Navy were gay. None of us in the command wanted to kick Gonzo out, but he got outed by a jealous ex and it was still the bad old days of Don't Ask, Don't Tell so we had to, by law. Gonzo was the best teacher we had for powerplant-related stuff. The other guy, Paul, I will flirt with (because we both know it's just joking around). Usually when someone is being all hellfire-and-damnation confrontational about it. It's fun watching them melt down :evil grin: But I gotta admit, I worry about the mental health of anyone who makes who or what they screw the foundation point of their identity. I don't think that's healthy. I don't think it's healthy to make any ONE thing the foundation of your identity, whether it's who/what you screw, what instrument you play, what job you have, whatever. Me? Yes, if you must know I am male and like ladies. I don't believe that a lesbian is someone who hasn't met the right man yet, I don't believe that a gay man hasn't met the right woman yet.
The study was comparing outcomes for happy, healthy, well-adjusted kids, and using the home environment as a predictive method. The study conclusion, written in the Abstract and loudly trumpeted in the news, was that homosexual parents are just as good as heterosexual parents. You actually read the study and the "just as good" is comparing long-term-relationship gay parents to the average of all straight parents. That fails the first law of statistics. We know a lot of the yardsticks for childrearing outcomes, and yes, long-term-relationship is rather important. It's one of the reasons that they don't allow single people to adopt children, usually. Personally, I'm actually interested in where a long-term-relationship gay parent measures up if you're going to compare like with like. I mean, it's obviously better than random broken families, abusive parents, etc. But the math implies that it's not as good as a long-term-relationship straight family. If the raw data shows that a long-term-relationship gay parent is better than a short-term-relationship straight parent, then there's no reason to make who the parents screw a point of judgment in allowing adoptions or placing kids for foster care. Where in the flying fuck did I say that? Exact quotes, please, no paraphrases.
I know. However, those were actions of self-defence against perpetrators of violence, against a government and a society that discriminated against black people. Should we list the police as a terrorist organisation now?
Alas, I think this is not what is happening. Certainly not on the tabletop, and mostly not in the background. It is obviously safer to check the profile than the name if you want to know what a unit is for. We will see for the new Kempeitai. (making the old ones are pretty horrible name choice.) If the new Kempeitai are really that horrible, I wonder why the rest of the JSA tolerates them? Is that because they agree with such violence? I hope it does not end up in a scenario where fascists rise up against an oppressive regime. That's not the kind of story I am after. I dislike such naming of units, because the background is fictional. You can describe atrocities without using disturbing historical references, people will understand it. Those of us who do are not sensitive about such historical terms, certainly would not mind if it is not used and those who are sensitive would not get offended. Simple solution with no one losing anything out of it.
But they were communists and followed the socialist doctrines. I am very well aware of the mentality of every group and government that followed that ideology turned out.
sorry but I don't have the same belief. real name add roots , for better and for worst, to the lore and BG of infinity. That is something that many player noticed and loved when firstly going in the game. Securitate role in nomad ships don't need explanation to the one who know real world securitate lore. Cb is not simply saying "securitate are bakunin police force". Cb is saying: "securitate is a ruthless and corrupted police force, that use any mean necessary to ensure the survival of the ship. They use bad manners with anyone unlucky enough to be arrested for simply being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. They are feared by the civil population, and hated by no-gooder". Just by using an historical name, you are implying much more than a simple name. Same applies for many other real world/fictional name references in the background of infinity. And yes, kempeitai are one of those units. Like it or not CB decided to use the real name, to describe the unit and load a simple lead miniature you play with, with the horrors of war, the ignorance of human nature and the disregard of human rights. So that when you play it, you're not simply using a figure of a space criminal. You're using a war criminal, a monster who kills civilian and rape children. Like it or not.
Aaaand the hate-show goes on, again. . . I don't know all the details of the Statistics that @Section9 is mentioning, but I believe that there are funded facts in defence of His assessment that He draws from studies published in the Markets. . . Nowaday one could rummage around the Net enough to find University Professors that endorse ALMOST EVERYTHING; the aforementioned Nazis still ongoing around that preach "White Supremacy" base their rants of Eugenetics Pseudo-Science that form the 1920-1930 was backed by College Rectors and Cathedratics from Great Britain and U.S.A. !! For every sensible, collected wise and calmly explained "Good Theory" (good as in the "Greater Good" sense, of a Thesis that will support the welfare of the "Many" against the one of the "Few" !!) there are others that totally contradict them and could be refuted JUST by famous and well-known College Teachers wanting to debate and discuss in a well-balanced environment. . . Hell, I had to dismantle the psychotic ideas about the "Need to Terminate" the Untermensch (You know ALL the Jews, ALL the Gypsies and, who would guess, ALL the Omosexual MALES !!) by the crap-theories of Eichmann and other Hitler's bureaucracy cronies, in a College Exam, by using only CONTEMPORARY historical documents (it was a Mini-Thesis on the Israeli Professor Hannah Arendt, that our Course Teacher wanted to be comprehended not "Just Because" but because Her theories were well funded in "Logic Reality" !!). . . It was not easy, and usually the "Supremacists" of ANY stripes are difficult to debunk if they are learned enough, because they often play in contemporary the "Eugenics Science Edge" (and so You have to need a Degree in Bio-Social Studies to refute their crap) and "Divine Right of the Chosen of God" (and You have to be a Biblical Theologist to battle Pseudo-Christian ones, or an knowledgeable of Islamic Faith as a Veteran Imam to debunk the Muslim Fanatics, or You'll be labeled an "Intolerant Bigot" !!). . . . . . . . And to the issue of "Adoptive Parenting" the infos that I could give, on My small own, still go to "Uncomfortable Uncanny Valley" territory so, as usual, there is the: Spoiler: Uncomfortable Personal Infos As could be difficult to properly adopt an Orphan Child if a Gay Couple is not TOTALLY well-balanced and good, I could attest that unfortunately there are many of whom that I knew personally. . . Here in Italy there was a big issue when a Southern Italy Politician, that while ALWAYS active in the L.G.B.T. Rights scene, I personally despise because is a whiny effeminate cringer that always spout "You Hate Me, because I am Smarter and More Sensible than You ALL !!" technically BOUGHT a Child by going with its Young Paramour to the U.S.A. when they made a "Professional Factrix" bring to term a Pregnancy for one of their Semen. . . It was reviled by many Couples without Child (BOTH Straight Couples or Omo Couples) because He flaunted its Considerable Wealth to achieve it, while many Straight, Gay and Lesbian willing adoptive Parents Wannabe strive with difficult bureaucracy (Here in Italy there are Kilometers of "SNAFU Red Tape" that You can easily cut JUST with "Golden Scissors" !!). . . But this is a distant thing unrelated directly to Me, I have to use examples that are more painfully personal. . . When I was working Security Detail for a very big 5+-Star Hotel in a very exclusive place in Italy there were a lot of "Fags" Gay Staff Members that were quite annoying in their continuous "Catcalls", but one of them was different, less effeminate, more athlethic and quite beautiful (He was Younger than Me, an Aryan Blondie with Blue Eyes) and also quite skilled in seduction attempts. . . While we were together, after finally He dropped the act after I asked Him what REALLY He wanted (and He negated at first) it was a very hollow affair, based on just Phisical Attraction; He claimed to be still Bisexual, even if His partners were mostly other Young Attractive Males, because He basked in the adoring "Harem of Fan" that He had from many Girls of the Staff, and the more unattractive Gay Males. . . He proudly statted "I don't Care really ! Any Warm Hole into which I can Come is good enough, if the face is pretty !!" and that should have been enough warning from Me of the emptyness of that shallow person (but at the moment I was thinking with the Testicles and not with Brain Cells !!). . . I cut very short the relationship because He started to joke about its "First Girlfriend" that still pined about Him, after a string of unsuccessful affairs, and said that probably, as She had a Child with an abusive partner and was now free, He could as well adopt the "Little Brat" so that She would have staid at Home, as a "Good Wife" while He was fucking Assholes elsewhere (well, rather BEING Fucked in the Asshole, as He was more on the "Passive" side). . . His only reedeming quality was that He claimed "Once I Marry Her, I will not go with other Women, just Beautiful Boys. . . . .Like You are, Steven !!" As I was not interested in a similar hollow Three Way pseudo-affair I get Him lost and did not care anymore about. . .!! . . . . . . Then, many Years later I had an affair with My aforementioned Austrian Fiancèè, that I knew from when We were small child, as Our Families went together to the same Holiday Spot on a sunny seaside beach. . . I lost contact with Her for a very long time and when I found Her back a few years ago, She had a child with an Illegal Immigrant from Pakistan, that She decided to courageously raise on Her own, without too much Personal Income, but at least with the help of a relatively supportive Family. . . At the moment I was not with other Partners (Men or Women) and so We fell MADLY in Love; I knew Her to be very sexually active (She introduced Me to Kinks that I previously did not knew well, or practiced) and I lied to Myself, saying to Me (and sadly, to Her !!) that I really wanted a Family on My Own, and would have quickly Married Her and Adopted the little child. . . She gladly admitted that while I was an excellent Sex Partner, what She really wanted was a steady, reliable companion and that when She has seen Me efficaciously Babysatting the small daughters of My brother, then She tought "He Is Mr. Right !!". . . I though that I was in the same mindset, and that I deeply cared for Her and the Child, but in reality, in honest retrospective, I was there ONLY for the Sex. . . . .!!! I was very pissed with the attitude of "Fake Conservativism" of many Italian Straight Girls, and the "Closet Mentality" of many Italian Gay Boys, and so I thought to go for foreign, greener pastures. . I admit that Sex with Her was awesome, and was totally smitten by Her open attitude (It was SHE that first proposed Mutual Anal Sex between Us !!!) but I was very careless in accepting everything at face value. . . She had many insecurities that I did not addressed well, She needed a far more realible companion than Me, and when some of Her Austrian Acquaintances expressed some idea of "Shared Excanged-Partners Sex" or "Orgies Between Friends" then I would have been wiser to Her discomfort, rather than expressing some interest in "Knowing More". . .!! There was also the difficulty of Myself traveling from Italy to Her home in Vienna, and also (very obvious in retrospective) our Families pushed in very different directions; Her parents wanted Me to settle, even for a very humble Job, in Austria, while My various siblings and relatives wanted Her to come with the child and live in Italy, where She would have found a very difficult % of finding a Work Employement good for Her knowledges. . . Trying to being a good Paternal Figure for the young child was very difficult, even if I believed to have tried hard, and when the Biological Father (the Pakistani Illegal still trying to obtain an Austrian Visa) continued to re-appear, without meaningfully support the Former Partner and its very Progeny, then everything crashed apart. . . We started to do far less sex and with far less success (for the first Time in My life I had to employ Cialis Pills !!) and We started to argue a lot for meaningless things. . . Granted, some "Reconciliation Love" after harsh words and tears is good, but after the Tenth time We litigated too much, we tried to "Keep A Slight Distance" and "Let Anger Cool Off". . . It did not work, and when I had the nagging feeling, totally unsupported by proofs, that She betrayed Me when I was not with Her in Austria (either with the Child's Father, another of Her Male Colleauges or one of Her Women Friends that I knew was openly Bisexual as Me !!) then wisely decided to not endanger anymore the small child and painlessly end Our relationship. . . I still hear directly of Her of the Child and we staid friends, but I still Miss Her immensely, even if I concur that MUCH of the Responsiblity (but not ALL !!) of the Break-Up was mine. . . This upcoming Summer is very probably that We will be together in the same Holiday Place; we openly joked that it will be best if We both will come to the Beach Spot with a Partner, as We fear that without someone at Our side is VERY easy we will finish to fuck mindlessly one night without thinking of the consequences for the Child. . . And I fear, that if I will come to the Holiday with a steady, masculine Gay Man that I'm trying to date (a person that I found Virile as Me and, while not very cultured, has the "Heart In The Right Spot" and a wise head) and She come with Her Bisexual Woman Friend (that I know is a Legal Adult Sex Worker near the Prater Amusement Park in Vienna's Red District !!) the things will be even more complicated. . .!! So, in retrospective I know very, Very, VERY well of a Bisexual Man that will NOT be a very Adoptive Father Figure. . . . .Myself !!! As usual I ask forgiveness if the blunt manner of descripting My personal History and issues, but I hope that it will be helpful to the very important discussion going on. . . Also I found VERY Catarthic to write it down all of My feelings. . . . .!!!
I get your point. I respect it. I don't think that you condone war criminals if you are into this stuff. It may also be true that I don't really want to play war criminals. Really does not excite me, on the contrary. But I accept that nasty people should also be part of the Infinity universe. However, I have this memory from my youth that I had a Romanian friend who got tortured by the Ceaucescu's police. I feel bad about playing with Securitate. It makes me think of my friend and how he would feel that I just throw around the names of the guys that caused him so much pain. While I am enjoying myself playing a game. I would prefer CB came up with new names and just tells us about how horrible their fantasy troopers are in the Infinity universe. I like that CB does not use the fantasy good vs. evil scheme. I like that they bring up the fact that war is not fun and that there are war crimes. I just don't think they need to use historical names for that.
Catharsis is usually good for you, @stevenart74 . The thing about statistics is that it's very much "well, what do you want it to say?" You can slice and dice the numbers to say almost anything, especially if you already know what you want the statistics to say. It's why old Mark Twain said that "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." And that's from back in the days where calling someone a damned liar was liable to get you into a duel for your life! But if you actually want to make an informed judgment without prejudice, you need to compare like with like. You want to know which drug is better, you give part of your study cohort one drug, part of the cohort the other, and the third cohort gets the placebo. My stats professor in college said that the first law of statistics is to compare like with like. If the person paying for the study doesn't like the results, they're likely to change how the final comparisons are made, like that Big Data study I mentioned. And honestly there were three major faults in that particular study: First, nobody actually made sure that what was written on the labels was actually what was in the sample bottles. Second, none of the known druglike compounds were tested at the same concentration (some were tested at 1/10,000 the strength of others!). And Third, the known druglike compounds were only tested at a single concentration. I think all painters have run afoul of that first problem (Paint in the new bottle isn't the same color as the old bottle). The other two problems are somewhat more specific to pharmaceuticals, but were still obvious to me when I have zero pharmaceutical training.
I am Greek, in general we are not a Buddhist heavy country, Swastika or the four legged and many other names the symbol has is quite heavy in both ancient art, buildings, archaeological findings (given it was a symbol of Zeus) and in modern buildings, nobody outside those with an agenda cares about the symbol, but I do not like appropriation of the symbol by a group that used it for a sliver of human history because of the (western) world paranoia with the symbol. The Nazi party biggest "achievement" in their world terror and one of their longest standing legacy is the banning of this world wide ancient symbol and its association with fascism and it is not done by them, we gave it to them, we allowed an ancient legacy to be taken by them instead of taking it back like everything else they stole. I also hate I have to educate people especially those that look into the historical wargaming community without been part of it, that no, the person who has painted some of the shields with Swastikas or the Swastika looking 4 legs is not a fascist, it is symbols the city states used. On the same note I deeply hate that the local fascist party tries to do the same with an other of our ancient symbols, more or less for the same reasons.
As a Korean, the name Kempeitai actually doesn't give any uncomfortable feeling to me (and other Korean players). While Koreans never forget what the Japanese empire did, unlike Wehrmacht and SS matter, the word Kempeitai is doesn’t consider as a sensitive issue. Even the Korean HunByungDae (Military Police Unit) shares the same word (憲兵隊) with Kempeitai. Koreans know that both the Japanese empire and its people worked for the same purpose under the same ideology, so long as belonged to the Japanese Empire, there is no difference to Koreans whether he is a Kempei or a common soldier. Either way, he is a minion of the fascist totalitarian state. The only difference between a common Japanese soldier and a Kempei is Kempei pointed his gun at the same Japanese. On the other hand, what is perceived more sensitively in Korea is the emblem of the JSA. The Rising Sun symbol, the symbol of the Japanese empire, is considered as a symbol of the their totalitarian system itself in Korea (and many Asian countries invaded by Japanese empire). Koreans see it as the sum of the their violence, their wars, their ideologies, all the other things. I’m not kidding, if you put the JSA patch on your army carrier and walk around the streets of Seoul or Beijing, your entire army will turn into pieces of pewter before you arrive at the game club. Just imagine walking around Paris with a swastika patch on your army carrier.
As a person with an interest in history as well as linguistics I find it funny that the symbol for which the fascists were named, the fascis, is so rarely associated with them nowadays and continues to be in widespread use. Obviously they nicked that symbol, too, but from the ancient Romans. I also remember quite the uproar in a gaming group where someone painted the shields of his vikings with, what I can best refer as "a wobbly swastika" (sorry, not my primary epoch of interest) and had people jump down his throat for fascist iconography, when in fact the shield design came straight from a shield discovered at a burial site somewhere. As always, context is king. I am reasonably sure most people could distinguish between a peaceful, orange-robed fellow and one that advocates for ethnic cleansings, even if both used a swastika symbol.
