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Is the game getting too complex?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Space Ranger, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think what you are asking for has a serious case of https://xkcd.com/1205/

    That said, it's probably easier to do it behind the scenes than in Army.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The Liberto Minelayer was missing its SWC cost.
     
  3. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    And it was correct in the PDF?
     
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Valid point. If they're using a separate database to generate the PDFs and data for Army, I'd make the changes there, rather than in army.

    I'm just annoyed that they are changing the points formula as applied to some units, but not across the board.
     
  5. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I'm okay with it. Generally speaking 1-3 points here or there isn't what causes me to win/lose games, it's usually a dumb decision or two. If they updated all the profiles, that would mean relearning a lot of stuff for people, and invalidating all their books. Invalidating books wholesale in that manner would piss off customers who don't like Army.
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    How else are they going to get you to buy into the new Sectorials if they don't make it so they have an advantage in points efficiency compared to the old ones?
     
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  7. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

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    1-3 points here, 5 points there, only 2 points here on each guy in a link... Meanwhile Ariadna still gets 20% discount on all troopers because they have only one (actually two in vanilla) unit with Hacking Device.
    I think you are overvalueing the value of profiles in books, and as for relearning stuff for people, they'll get over it.
    We're better off if Jeff stops playing. He's a nice guy, but he's just slowing everyone down.
     
    #727 Nemo No Name, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I lol'd @Nemo's post. "Player's who don't like Army (or an equivalent)" is a strawman. Also CB is already clearly moving there.

    The biggest change with universally applying the formula anytime it changes isn't learning new things: a Wildcat still functions the same way whether it is priced like a Kamau or not. Rather, it's refreshing list building options.

    We already see this with things like Bravery. But comparatively it's an inelegant solution. Whereas simply re-working the cost of 4-2 Move troops to accurately reflect the value people consider them to have in game and simulataneously re-working the cost of Combi+LSG as a weapon would have had a more nuanced effect on the game.
     
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  9. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Exact date... no idea... maybe 2017? Well, things are obvious when the skills are wrong language, or the things look weird and are not selectable (image instead of real fonts). That suggests the PDF generation is not automatic.

    I am checking... wow, the directories finally match the announced version in Download section. That must be a recent fix. It would be way better if instead of generating many directories, the files were named as what they are (.../Something/en/v1.0/Something.pdf (Something twice, not a typo) as .../Something-EN-v1.0.pdf). Less complexity and information follows files (no renaming needed).

    And yes, still some profiles are images instead of real text (Haqq's Halqa Mech Inf, eg). Copy paste at work. With a craptastic font rendering, BTW.

    img-10887.png
    1:1 zoom and check the bold text. That L inner corner in Light... ugh.

    So no, I don't have a typo example at hand, but the PDF has to be "by Manolo".
     
  10. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the complaints about the pts formulas are wildly overblown by nerds on the Internet. It's not a big deal, really. Infinity is really well balanced.

    Unsurprising that they would given the nature of nerds on the Internet, but still.
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Infinity being generally really well-balanced makes those points where it isn't well-balanced a lot more obvious, though. Say, Pheasants. SymbioMates. Or even Ninja Snipers. Nevermind the usual PanO whipping boys, Bolts.



    Which suddenly adds up to playing with ~275pts when everyone else has 300, and that's assuming Limited Insertion! It actually gets worse with more models.


    I'm not sure I agree with that.
     
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  12. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a half year ago I said the same.
    Nowadays I say the balancing works despite that point imbalance.
    And yes, Infinity is still very good balanced compared to most of the other games. It's the advantage of it's complexity.
     
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If they get people to buy IA instead of trogglodyting ISS, then I can only assume there's something other than codex creep at play...
     
  14. blueskies_overhead

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    I just came accross this thread and I see your point completely. I am a new player still mastering rules. I noticed that nearly all of the discussion in our group, even for brand new players, is extremely competitive oriented. Endless threads about the virtues of one unit or another in combat. I don't even see a lot of discussion about learning the rules. I'm more casual and will master the rules eventually, but I won't ever be in the super competitive/intellectual camp. The main draw of the game to me is the style/artwork/setting. The game is fun too, but the rules are certainly intimidating. I think it would be best if they divided the rules into "basic" and "advanced". Everyone starts with basic and hardcore players can play with advanced also. Events can be geared towards one group or the other.
     
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  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, @blueskies_overhead !

    I do agree that infinity is not a simple game, and I've been playing since 2006. Well, off and on since 2006, I haven't played much lately and am going to be embarrassingly rusty the next time we play Infinity (as opposed to 8e40k or Sigmar or Flames or...).

    Like you, I started into the game because I like the setting and art (and was burned the heck out on 40k!). It helped that most of the guys I was pitching Infinity towards were more interested in pushing lead around than winning. Don't get me wrong, we all like to win, but we don't take it too hard when someone outplays us. Screwing up a rule, however...

    This might be something you want to talk to your local group about. Maybe a 'tournament' where you try to bring the least optimized list you can, or the most bizarre stuff, or even a challenge to take at least 2x units you have never used before. Maybe a campaign, but I'd want to see the new Campaign missions before agreeing to play Paradiso. Or, heck, maybe even a tournament where you play your opponent's list.

    For learning the rules, I recommend doing focus games once you have played through the Operation:whatever scenarios. For example, take all your good CC troops, no heavy weapons. Your goal is to get into CC and hack at each other. (This is great for MO and JSA players). You can do another game that is hacking heavy, bring all the REMs and TAGs and HI and hackers (and give the Ariadnan player a loaner army!)
     
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  16. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Seconded. This is how we taught ourselves, and how Ive taught very many introductory games for board gamers and Japanese players - who have no native language rulebook; it seems to work.

    I also like playing Starter Box sets against one another, plus Regular Orders up to a total of 8, and play different load-outs on the starter units. Theres an explanation and PDFs for the Starter sets at Watchwolf.net
     
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  17. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Please explain trogglodyting ISS.

    Thaknks!
     
  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Long, involved, bitter story. With the “Uprising” book and storyline, there are strong feelings about how ISS is portrayed. Better to ask folks by PM rather than another thread getting nuked.
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think I already did. Troglodytes are cave dwelling creatures. Find a "cave" and hunker down. Make yourself hard to get to and hit back hard if your opponent tries and overextends.

    @A Mão Esquerda : *slow clap*
     
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