Certainly, from the outset that is no doubt going to be the outcome. The clarification I am attempting to make, however, is that when someone asks whether a subset of models will be weak, it is in comparison to other subsets of models assuming those models are being played by players of equal skill and experience.
That'd be a good question. However, how we could judge that, not knowing what selection of models will be, eventually, available to the given sectorial? As I've menitoned before, we do know some troops - and some of their loadouts - that are, most likely, going to be present in RTF. But not all of them. We also don't know Availability limits for any of them (though I'd say we'd be wise to not expect more than AVA 1 for Maghariba Guard). We don't know what types of Fireteams will be available to which unit, and what kind of mixed Fireteams (which seem to be quite a thing in N3) are going to be present. We have very little idea what synergies are going to be present in RTF, either. We lack knowledge on so many topics, yet you're trying to ask whether the army will be weak. Well, and which army is weak in current Infinity, post-Uprising? For a long time back in 2ed Hassassins were considered to be weaker than most... or rather, more difficult to play. Because there were players who used them with great efficency in tournament scene back in the day. Nowadays, well, Hassassins don't seem as straighforward as Corregidor or Qapu Khalqi, but it doesn't mean I'd consider them weak. ...actually if I were to point out a "weak" army, I'd give a very close look to the MRRF (I haven't had a chance to see them in action: nobody in my meta did ever play Ariadna). And that's mostly because they weren't really revised ofr N3 yet. There armies that are boring (I hear this comment about PanO a lot). Sure, a boring army is not a well-designed amry, but it doesn't automatically make it weak...
We can't, which was very much a part of my point in replying to the following, something I considered to be a rather empty statement:
Even with it's lack of revision, I wouldn't call any Sectorial with access AVA4 Chasseurs, linked viral, and Duroc "Weak"! Weakest faction IMHO is Morats, but I sure others would disagree. It's definitely too early to tell with RTF, for skilled or unskilled players.
This is a great analysis. RTF has some great centerpieces, but it's lacking in support outside of the perpetually useful Ghilli. I'd love a supersoldier warband (hyper kinetic?), for example. Or an Al Fasid that can link with Naffatun. Linkable REMs? The lack of long range firepower seems to be intentional, however. With Khawarij as our signature unit, the sectorial is an assault sectorial. And we do have synergy in that direction with the Hakim and Tuareg picking up midfield Rambos. So there is an identity here, it's just not fully developed.
No, but I am suggesting that a power scale exists, whether we can accurately/realistically measure it or not.
Significantly more than player skill? No. The best player will easily play better with the worst models than the worst player with the best models. I would even go so far as to say that someone of somewhat above average skill with the worst models has a better chance of winning than losing against an average player with the best models. I am firmly in the camp of telling new players to play whatever they like because Infinity is balanced enough to give them a good experience in which player skill will be the greatest determining factor of the outcome of a game. However, I will never tell anyone that the game's factions are perfectly internally and externally balanced or that player skill is the only determining factor. Players at the very top will have very good reasons for making their faction and unit selections when planning to eek out every possible advantage in their respective tournament metas. To answer the main question in the thread topic, my answer would be no. I think it's already good. I would be perfectly happy to play Vanilla Haqq with only the models that are currently slated to be available to the RTF with Vanilla AVA and it's lack of fireteams. I just built an LI list in about 50 seconds which I can see my self enjoying to play. Knowing all these toys are going to be thrown into a Sectorial with all the added benefits that implies has me very excited for the future.
But painting one of them is already so intimidating! It's sat on my desk for months in various stages of incomplete.
About zero... Vedic and Varuna are rumoured* to be this year, that takes two of the three slots (Gencon is similarly rumoured* to be a double slot via two player box). Since Pan O and Haqq are already in two player starters there is very little chance of them being in a second two player box. Consequently Varuna is logically the november release with Vedic being half the GenCon release and RTF next year. *by bostria in the Cancon video at the start of the year - so as close to truth as we can know at the moment
Never have I felt so mistaken.. Tried out Zhayedan Sniper and Zhayedan Breaker Rifle lieutenant in a couple of games yesterday (vs USARF and vs Morats) in a "Ramah only" list. They worked wonderfully. Lieutenant was the MVP in both games, despite Al Fassid trying his best to keep up. In first one he destroyed the Unknown Ranger, a couple of Marauders and cleaned up a 3-man Minutemen fireteam.. while sniper removed Minuteman Missile launcher on ARO and died to AP rifle, who managed to score a double critical on 7s. Second game Breaker Rifle managed to kill 2/5 Suryat link before falling unconcious.. but got back up with Automedkit and finished his job. After that (and after another game, where Tarik solo-ed the entirety of USARF..) i have to admit - RTF can't be weak with such units. And I'd be more than happy, if Zhayedans would get a Haris/Mixed fireteam. Even if their "meh" loadouts would remain unchanged or we won't get any new supersoldiers)
Well.. it was pretty dumb. Haven't put much thought into it Haqqislam────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FASID Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45) ZHAYEDAN Lieutenant (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) GROUP 2 6 GHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 15) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 15) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) HAKIM Boarding Shotgun + 1 Nasmat A2 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) NASMAT A2 Electric Pulse. (0 | 4) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
Zhayedan Sniper and Breaker Rifles are totally legit, shame the HMG, Missile Launcher and BSg don't have MML2 as well or they'd be worth taking as well.
I was having a thought about this last night - I think what we're missing is a medium infantry trooper that fills some of our gaps but keeps in the theme. I want this unit to be called Immortals, but that's technically what Zhayaden translates to, so I'm thinking it will be called Pushtigban, based on another Persian cavalry unit. I agree with shoehorning MSV is stepping on the Djan's toes, and our faction isn't really high tech, even in Ramah. I'm noted that outside some excellent doctors, we don't have great specialists, and if Maggie is going to be a big part of the sectorial, we should have a cool engineer. So: The theme would be a breacher style super soldier, used for clearing minefields and opening doors.The fluff would be that they have an enhanced bio-regeneration system that helps them recover from massive injuries, and this ability makes them reckless and fearless. Type MI Characteristics: Extreme Impetuous AVA 3 MOV CC BS PH WIP ARM BTS W 4-2....13.12.12..14......3.....0.....1 Skills/Equipment Regeneration+, Religious Troop, Multiterrain Profiles: Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Minesweeper Engineer, Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Panzerfaust AP Rifle + light shotgun, Panzerfaust, Fireteam: Haris AP Rifle + light shotgun, Panzerfaust AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal + smoke) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges, Assault Pistol Regeneration+: as Regeneration, but the trooper retains his order when unconscious. This order can only be used on the trooper to attempt a Regeneration roll, removing the trooper if the roll fails, and cannot be converted by the use of a command token. (also considered a -3 to the PH roll if this is OP, but not sure) I don't know enough to accurately price them, but I would want the cost to be somewhere around 24 for the boarding shotgun up to maybe 32ish for the HRL, but I appreciate that maybe something would have to be cut to make it work.
