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Is CB trolling?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Zewrath, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Like how @psychoticstorm tried to claim this profile was fine, in the face of all evidence, instead of admitting it has some problems?
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Uh, what? You just said, basically "Of course I admit that CB can make mistakes" without admitting that CB made a mistake.
     
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  3. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Wow, @ObviousGray seems to be almost alone in trying to get a constructive discussion going.

    It seems clear that CB is not going to give Krit a crazy min/maxed profile due to players concerns right before he‘s even officially playable. So how about suggesting some slight changes that take the edge off a bit? Maybe +1-2 PH?
     
    Sedral, Furiat and Maksimas like this.
  4. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    That would ironically prove to be a further detriment though. Implementing the extra PH would further increase his price whilst not improving his capabilities in any substantial enough capacity to justify it: the difference between 60% and 65%-70% for the AutoMedikit to succeed is not enough to justify the extra price.

    Personally, the greatest issue come from his guns: a Combi Rifle at his cost coupled with it being useless at 0-8 due to having a better pistols is an immense downside, E/Mitter or not.
    I'd say simply replacing the Combi+E/Mitter with a different gun, one that doesn't even have to be some almighty MULTI+LGL or Spitfire/SMG/Red Fury/Molotok/etc., such as a basic Marksman Rifle would make his entire profile seem a lot more cohesive and solid.
     
  5. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    On extra PH I was running under the assumption that characters sometimes get things for free.

    I really like the Idea with the standard Marksmen rifle.
     
  6. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    I'd honestly be happy if there was a barebones profile with only pistols and chain colt and of course EM minelayer. Keep him cheap.
    I mean the dual pistols are awesome linked up close, and at any other range you have other better guns if your link is intact.

    He's not there to shoot, he's there to be a specialist and for tool (In my ideal world)
     
  7. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    It's a fair mistake.
    Few things are free in this game though, barring certain hand adjustments.

    He'd also fit more neatly inside of the rather "standard" Zuyong team of TinBot + HMG + Tai Sheng + Haidao KHD then. This team already has a Combi-Rifle, but having a second weapon for both shooting at 0-8 and 8-24 would add actual genuine additional versatility to the team, in addition to his other gear. Whilst the Combi+E/Mitter at best gives you a decent dude to poke out of a corner with an E/Mitter, I'd say.
     
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  8. Borlois

    Borlois Yu Jing Imperial Service Agent

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    Not exactly, Yan Huo HMG or ML is a meat grinder, and we will save points using a Pangulin, so there is no specialist.
    Now the haris can save some points, having a attack piece and a specialist.
    Well, perhaps is a expensive profile for a Zuyong Core, but I think it can work in a Haris. The idea is:
    Daoying= Tai/ Mowang
    Zanshi+Haidao+SB/Zn ML= Yan Huo/ Krit.
     
  9. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Zhanshi and the Zuyong ML can't share a fireteam. The Shang Ji HRL can though.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @psychoticstorm the brewing dumpster fire aside, I'm having problems building lists in IA where I can fit everything I need for the missions and still be able to challenge my opponent to a fight. Which missions do you find Krit valuable for and could you show a list example for such a mission?
     
  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Give him Veteran L1, remove Kinematica L2 for the L1 common to all Zhuyong, and remove the Automedikit, maybe for Bioinmunity with some extra BTS: There is your story, the guy is a veteran of dangerous zones filled with environmental hazards, with nerves of steel and a tweaked armor for those places.

    This means he is vulnerable only to glue, but not easily outed from the fireteam, nor forced to spend orders into de-isolate himself.
     
    Azuset, ZlaKhon and SKOZZOKONZ like this.
  12. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Unfortunately, because of his high tech HI nature that means he'll always be vulnerable to E/M.
     
  13. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I said he has his uses and showed the uses he has and brings t a fireteam, you may not like them, but that does not change the fact he brings new stuff and options in.

    I showed a recent instance I admitted we did not write a rule well, so? your problem is?

    There are no points hands adjustments if a model needs to get in a higher or lower points tier it gets or looses stats and equipment/ weapons.

    I am not sure I am the best out there to ask about it, I do not play Yu Jing much if at all, because we have Yu Jing players and Yu Jing is their main/ only army and I want to avoid giving them mirror matches, I recently started fielding IA because I always liked Yu Jing HI and my small experience playing them with the observations I have from their development gives me the impression that indeed they balance a lot with this dichotomy of doing objectives or kill the enemy, Local meta shifts priorities a lot in my opinion, here we have a lot of risk heavy players who infiltrate minelayers outside of deployment if they set up second so an extra camoulfage counter to protect from a few mines going off is an important asset, others have more reserved meta and this is not a big issue, so this is a tempting option for this alone, otherwise for me his Feurbach option seems quite tempting if I go for full Zuyong or even Haris Zuyong his chaincolt is a nice deterrent against warbands that helps a lot too, I also like the option to free my Haidao from the engineer slot since I prefer to take them as chain of command, MSV2 and KDH.

    He may not be what people wanted and from the complains here I do not get what people hoped he would be, or what gap they believe the IA really needs filled/ would wish it got filled.
     
  14. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    I certainly hope that's the case, at least.
     
  15. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Welp, I should field him ASAP.

    All I need is a good playing experience, since not much units in Infinity is totally useless as @TheDiceAbide says;

    Its our new new surprise unit afterall. Now I'm good with him. Worth a shot - starting from his minelayer profile.

    My local community tended to despise Zhencha at the very first time, TBH, and I succeeded at changing their grumbling once and for all. Who knows?
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I really like the Zhencha one of my most useful units so far.
     
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  17. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    If the boarding shotgun one had mine it would be amazing. I reckon the non SMG other profiles are bad tbh.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well... the thing is, given his execution, because the main concept doesn't seem inherently bad (engineer with dual heavy pistols and some out-of-faction weapons). Problem is list building. He's hard to fit. You can afford to make awkward units with sub-optimal prices for sectorials with access to large number of cheap units, but IA isn't a sectorial with cheap units and it's specifically designed to be a bit awkward to fit normally.

    What I'm saying is, if Krit would be wonderful in Caledonia where they have cheap orders or Aleph where a strong Engineer could support the otherwise powerful Dakini, that's one thing, but he also has to provide a service inside the sectorial he's in and it's hard to pull that off.

    As for your last paragraph:
    * point defense (perimeter, total reaction, neurocinetics...)
    * Daoying shell game (camouflage or minelayer that costs at most 0,5 SWC)
    * more affordable MOD stacking than a Hac Tao
    * indirect attacks (stuff with speculative fire)
    * exotic weapons

    These are all stuff that the sectorial doesn't really have. Krit kind of got two of them with a third profile not providing anything that a Zhencha and a Gongcheng doesn't already provide. But only kind of.

    Since he's a character, it's expected he'll provide either one of these points in a fairly optimized way (see: Uxia or Xi Zhuang) or that he'll provide several of them at a premium price and premium performance (see Tai Sheng or Jerkilles).
    Krit... fell between those two. He provides only one point at a time at an expensive performance profile.

    If he was meant to be a gunslinger, then maybe an extra point in BS would be appropriate instead of in CC.
    If he was meant to be a toolbox, then he kind of has his toolbox spread over too many profiles.
    If he was meant to have a quasi skirmisher profile, then he's missing MOD stacking.

    So in its essence, all profiles are both too much and not enough at the same time. They're a pulled punch. Either expend the concept slightly or slim it down.
     
  19. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    I suspect this might be part of the cause why there's such a discrepancy between what the testers thought would be good and how people receive said things.
    It might just be so that the, for future reference lets call it this way, ''testers meta'' differs in several substantial ways from the ''average'' or ''common'' meta.
    It might just be my local meta and the impression these forums as well as blogs and general hearsay give of the wider global meta, but it seems the ''common'' meta is more likely to be heavily in favor of low-to-none risk play styles, opposed to the ''testers'' meta being a lot heavier leaning on ''going hard or going home'' and taking a lot of high stake risks ( If I understood what you were trying to imply, at least. ). Should be at least interesting to look into for curiosities sake.

    I know this to at least be true to my local meta: the greatest extent of risk taking I have ever seen are Impersonator and Superior Infiltration rolls, and only in the event of them having the first turn. Beyond that, I've only ever once seen an AD4 unit drop onto the table opposed to walking on it ( And even then it was with the best possible odds for such drops in the game, a Guided Jump Rasyat. ). Here players are meticulously tuning and refining the same exact list to be as consistent and stable as possible, minimizing any potential risk factors possible and generally speaking avoiding all risky units possible, in favor of low-risk and predictable units ( So spamming some cheap Warbands, TR bots, Smoke+MSV combos, TAGs and HI being nearly unheard of to some people even I've found. ), barring some few units that can be swapped around for adaptability.
    Although, personally, I myself go for the high stake risks type of play instead of low risk ones, but that is just me. T:
     
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  20. Someone

    Someone Active Member

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    Maybe? I am not a fan of the Pang it’s too big, particularly if you’re moving up to complete missions. That combo gets you a cheaper Engineer plus big gun haris than Zuyong ML and Haido Engineer haris but not sure it’s good.
     
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