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Is CB trolling?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Zewrath, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    In what world the Tomcat is trash? On demand engi/doctor wherever you need it with his own G:Servant,
     
  2. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    They are what now? since when tomcats are considered trash?
     
  3. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    I think the idea of an automedikit being properly automatic is great. It could either be changed to activate every time a model would go unconscious ut leaving them prone, or if that’s too much, limit it to once per game or simply at the end of the turn where a model goes unconscious. Regenerate probably should be changed to match. This conversation makes me realize they still haven’t really fixed healing, it’s still too many orders for too big of a risk.
     
    DaRedOne, xagroth, Ogid and 4 others like this.
  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    See, this is where the whole argument breaks down. You're not able to make an objective judgement, because you're always looking through the lens of your personal experience, internet "wisdom", and your meta. You can have a subjective opinion, with hard data either supporting it or not.

    Some people might. One of my opponents uses Tomcats to great effect, while Caliban is almost an autoinclude in my SEF. Having an Engineer in the midfield, close to your HIs and/or TAGs after they make their attack runs, is pretty damn useful. Same as having the option of including Engineer in your HI link. The question is whether Krit brings enough to the table to consider him over Haidao; for now it's too early to judge.

    Taking a wider view - units are tools. Either they fit our general playstyles and specific mission needs - as we define them - or they don't. But they might very well fit the way other people play. TAGs are a good example; some people consider them useless point sinks, some swear by them, some even run double-TAG lists to really surprise the opponent. There are better and worse units - but most of the time "worse" simply means "much more niche", and some people can use such units to great effect. Teutons are a great example - 9/10 times other knights are a better tool for the job, but there are still some niche applications for them - if only one is approaching them with an open mind. But this requires to look at units and list constructions a bit differently; instead of "this is my style and needs, which units fit them?" we need to ask "this unit is capable of these things, in what situation is it useful, how to use it most efficiently?" Only then we're able to really get 100% utility from our armies.

    Working automatically at the start of each turn - before order count - would work best, I think.
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    For what it's worth, looking at the 2017 Interplanetary lists (ignoring 2018 due to being Limited Insertion):
    Generic Nomads: 12 lists
    Bakunin: 8 lists
    Corregidor: 4 lists

    Clockmakers appeared in 10 lists.
    Tomcat Engineers appeared in 5 lists (plus a further 3 lists with non-Engineer Tomcats).

    Clockmakers appeared in 10 out of a possible 24 lists (42%).
    Tomcat Engineers appeared in 5 of a possible 16 lists (31%).

    So the idea that Tomcat Engineers are considered trash is a very narrow (and definitely subjective) view.

    EDIT - and Caliban Engineers are a staple in my Shasvastii lists, but that's purely anecdotal.
     
    #465 ijw, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  6. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I may be less familiar, admittedly, with Yu Jing and Nomads, I know my Shas.

    And there's no reason for me to take a Caliban button pusher when I can have almost twice as many Seed specialists, and have the miniworms do my Remote repairing needs.

    Frankly, as someone who used the Caliban extensively before the rework, I see their now bloated points cost and muddled unit role as reason enough to almost never want one. Quite aside from the fact they effectively killed the Aswuang for them.
     
  7. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Agree to disagree, then; I like the new Seed Soldiers, but I've had very positive results from my Calibans so far. There's more I look for in a unit when building my army than simply how many models I can put on the table.
     
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  8. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Which is what so many discussions boil down to. Some folks like Troop X because it fits their play style but don’t have much use for Troop Y, and others are al reves, and we all talk about it absolute terms.
     
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  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Some people are objectively wrong about these things though. It's not all subjective.
     
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  10. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    End of the day though, it doesn't matter. If someone builds a list with janky stuff in, uses it and it works.. No drama.
     
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  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    In your opinion, perhaps. However, as @csjarrat just noted, if someone can get mileage out of unpopular units, well...
     
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  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    2016: Totally new to Infinity. Plays nothing but Nomads for 1,5 years straight. Hears nothing else about how Tomcats are one of the best specialists in the game, especially on those missions where you need to control an objective with a specialist at end of turn 3. Nothing but praise.

    2019:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I think this is more because they became the cheapest specialist than any other reason. SMG/DTW/Specialist/D-Charges is definitely the kind of profile you want on a midfield button pusher.
     
  14. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    They are a FD2 camouflage engineer that can repair that runaway Sphinx, do objectives and demolish that objective with minimal order expenditure and good survival rate with his deployment options, camouflage and a pulzar, I do not know why one would not use them.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Sure, but if they make a list with some jank in it, and it doesn't work, they shouldn't pretend the jank is good. Not all unit choices are equal.
     
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  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    The point been made is, personal preference, local meta and play style dictate what is and is not "janky" and all these are subjective criteria, some units work for some people and do not work for other people.

    And the same units can work in an entirely different way for two different people
     
  17. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    There's also absolutely no reason you can't attach a slave drone to your Caliban engineer. Move your servant 6" up at the same time you're surprise-shooting their models in the midfield.
     
  18. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Five dollars on 'this player never ate a DEP to their backhead'
     
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  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Again:
    Krit is very expensive in the scheme of IA. Krit's cheapest profile is the same cost as a Zuyong HMG or Shang Ji HRL!


    Yeah, NO.

    Engineers that have to spend fewer orders getting to things to fix are a really good thing.


    Probably.

    Krit is just flat too expensive for IA, though. Which is really sad, because Krit is an awesome model with cool fluff. A guy who was bad and screwed up, trying to pull his head out of his butt and be respectable. That's a really appropriate thing to have in YJ, redemption of a criminal is a long-running tradition in Chinese literature. Have you read The Adventures of Judge Dee? All of Judge Dee's assistants are former bandits!
     
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  20. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. You can still make bad overcosted units work for you, but they are still bad overcosted units.
     
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