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Invincible Tactical Doctrine

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Are there any Zanshis from the SWC box that get used, or never get used?
     
  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The only SWC Zhanshi I could ever see myself using would be the hacker, and only if I really needed a regular hacking device and for some reason wasn't taking the remarkably good Daoying hacker. It's a very narrow niche, and probably not worth buying the box over.

    In vanilla, Zhanshi are just plain bad enough that I make a point of never using them, period. In IA, every SWC option they get is one you should be investing in doing better in if you'd like to use them in a link, and have those better options available for. Zhanshi exist to fuel the MSV2 MSR Haidao and TA Spitfire Shang Ji. As themselves, they have no merit.
     
    #142 Weathercock, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  3. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    I've had some use out of the HMG. There's some strong opinions on links, but sometimes you just need to throw fistfuls of dice at a problem and a LI linked HMG gives you that option. 5 dice on 14s with dam15 is the same as a HRMC Yan huo in vanilla (minus ammo types). Don't let anyone tell you that a zanshi HMG is an "awful pick/never take". It's useful and sorts problems out like albedo that otherwise shaft the linked haido
     
  4. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    The zhanshi HMG and the grenade launcher one can be interesting sometimes, even the hacker if you don't have a daoying. The only ones I think I'll never consider are the sniper and missile launcher ones, simply because you're already taking a haidao and/or a son-bae anyway.
     
  5. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    I think the Zanshi Missile is solid in the defensive fireteam.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The Son-Bae for one point more seems like a better choice though, +1 BS and the second level of Unconscious, plus the ability to be given Marksmanship level 2 seems a good trade for the downsides of being a remote.
     
  7. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    plus the fact that you can only have 4 zhanshis. If you take the missile launcher instead of the son-bae, that mean you need another wildcard to get the fireteam up to 5 members.
     
    #147 Sedral, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I mean, you probably run one in their link anyway as a main active piece. Having spares may be useful though.
     
  9. Demotron

    Demotron Member

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    Hmmmm...

    So Yu Jing Invincible Army is simply said ”quality over quantity” type?
     
  10. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, there's not really much cheap stuff to spam in IA. You're better playing to their strengths and building a limited insertion group that benefits from LT2 and/or tacaware imho
     
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'll get the SWC box when them make one of them NCO like they did with the Ghulam Rifle+LGL with Regular AND smoke! Just ridiculous they got something like that.

    My point is, for me, there's not reason to take them when you have others that do better for the points.

    With my Dahshat, i'm very likely to take a Ghulam core. In Shasvastii i'll do Nox. But I never see a reason to don Zhanshi SWC troops in Vanilla or IA. Why take a Sniper when it should be a Haidao? Why a Missile Launcher if it can be a Son-Bae?
     
  12. Demotron

    Demotron Member

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    Yup, but there is a bright side in "quality over quantity" armies... such as less money spent on quantity of minifigs...
    (we have a gag in our "wargamers club" about phenomena related to "wise man says; steal a wallet from a man and he'll be poor for a week, teach him to play wargames and he'll stay poor for his whole life") :;D
     
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  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I would say running non-LI lists of IA isn't necessarily discarding their strengths, especially in non-LI environment. Basically, you will want some remotes and dudes to use as Zhanshi over what you will have to get for some variety of LI lists, and you're pretty much set at that point.
     
  14. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Personaly i think the most succesfull way to play IA is avoiding the pain trains and stick to zhansi core + Rui shi + the HI you like. (in my case Liu Xin qnd zencha + mowang or tai haris/duo)
     
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  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I would also argue that the five-man Zuyong pain train is probably too big and costly for its own good. It'll have the kit to run all over less experienced players, but putting your eggs in more baskets is probably more prudent against opponents who know how to deal with a deathstar. I also feel that any Zuyong that doesn't bring TA to a link (or NCO if you're using Tai Sheng) is a massive drop in efficiency that IA really needs.


    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    2 SWC | 98 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    3 models, 5 orders, and all the core elements you'll really need out of a Zuyong fireteam anyway. At 98 points, that's totally reasonable and cuts out any extra fat.
     
    #155 Weathercock, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  16. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Seconding the previous two posts
     
  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, explicitly so:
    Emphasis mine.


    Consider that quote "borrowed"!



    Yeah, that's really the foundation of any 5-man link I bring anyways. I typically add Tai Sheng and either a Shang Ji HRL, Zuyong ML, or Krit EMitter; depending on opponent.

    I should probably mess around with running a 3-strong Core and a Haris instead of the Deathstar. Might even give space for a Yan Huo.
     
  18. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    You could try something like this:

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    YĀN HUǑ (FTO) 2 Missile Launchers / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 52)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)

    6 SWC | 294 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    But I still feel that limited insertion is a trap, even for most IA setups. And with the raw mediocrity that is the Yan Huo also having to compete for orders with the HMG Zuyong, I'd sooner just drop that for more dominance for the Haidao sniper (because seriously, this guy is an absolute beast, and with none of the weaknesses that undercut the Yan Huo's efficiency).

    Invincible 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7
    MÓWÁNG (NCO) MULTI Rifle, Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 52)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    17 orders, split (8/9) between two combat groups that should have no problem getting great use out of them, and having much better table coverage overall with a Mowang moving up the table (and should the Zuyongs die, you just move the KHD Haidao over to buddy up with the big Wang and keep on pushing).
     
    #158 Weathercock, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  19. Demotron

    Demotron Member

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    Heh!
    I can help ya a way better;
    6FAB6979-CD44-485C-982C-38D4ED7C5042.jpeg
     
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  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    All my FB friends that wargame have now been tagged with that, thanks!
     
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