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Invincible starter pack

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    HRL, Spit, combi and hacker would make a decent box.

    But I wouldn't be surprised if one of the SWC were replaced with a tinbot because fully useful boxes are a bit of a dice roll with CB and so many profiles.
     
  2. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Can someone tell me what the hell is up with the totally inconsistent color schemes?! What happened to uniform paint colors? Now the Daoying is this weird mix of dark and bright blue (instead of the dossier being all dark blue), half the guys have green chestplates, some have orange, all but the Liu Xing have grey bicep armor, etc. They just randomly painting shit however they like these days lol?
     
  3. Shinen

    Shinen Well-Known Member

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    I think, its because daoying and haidao aren't troops from the IA (if you look at the unit icon) LiuXing on the other hand seems to just want to have an special new armor type... jm2c :)
     
  4. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    Haidaos are fleet forces. Like in modern armies they may have different colors
     
  5. sevsterino

    sevsterino Well-Known Member

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    The new paint schemes are indeed interesting, but what really does not work for me it is the freedom that the studio Giraldez got from CB to change the schemes if they "feel" look better.

    The inconsistencies have always been there and I think it is largely the freedom of choice from studio Giraldez to paint miniatures slightly different from their dossiers. Since Angel is not an Infinity player, even different profiles of the same units have slightly different paint schemes. It happened to Zhanshis, to Zanyings, Pheasants... Has anyone noticed that the color of pants of all ISS troops should be dark grey (dossier), not green/blue like on Zhanshis. Studio Giraldez apparently did not notice that....
     
    #65 sevsterino, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    IA's default colours are Orange and Green, not just Orange. Remember that was part of the reason Tigers are Green suits with Orange armour, they were supposed to be IA as well. The Haidao is actually on scheme as is the Liu Xing.

    As for the Daoying having bright parts of the armour it's just the painting techniques to show off the model detail. Making the dark blue fade into a white edge makes the armour detail pop.


    That doesn't surprise me at all that he's given some freedom or rather is involved in the process of selecting colours, or that they've made that particular choice of colours. Angel is professional, using his expertise when deciding how to scheme something would make perfect sense. Also Orange and blue/teal is a real thing.

    Selecting the correct contrasting colours really helps make detail pop, even a mediocre painter can extremely enhance the visual appeal of their models by carefuly selecting their paint scheme.
     
    #66 Triumph, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  7. sevsterino

    sevsterino Well-Known Member

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    i don't think that is the case with tiger. Angel has been painting cloth pants green/blue on every single model in YJ including ISS, IA and vanilla (ignoring dark grey for ISS). Actually that dark grey on pants in ISS was most likely designed to contrast well the green cloth on many ISS models (Crane, Pheasant, Kanren, Zanying, etc.). He painted the pants green and cloth also green (look at female Pheasant's). He is a great painter so he saved the day by over highlighting the pants, but in reality if he had stuck with the dossier colors that would have looked much better. Finally, IA green is much brighter and saturated than YJ cloth green.
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The pheasant has the teal pants, not green. Same as the other non IA troopers.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Tigers have been painted with both IA's green/orange

    [​IMG]

    As well as the blue/orange

    [​IMG]

    As I assume as their dossier indicates, they belong (or did at the time that the dossier was conceived) to more than one branch of the YJ armed forces, unlike Pan-O or CA in which each division has their own specific A/D troops.

    Should be noted that prior to N3 Yu Jing as a whole scheme was Green/Orange. Celestial Guard and the rest of ISS

    [​IMG]

    To the JSA as well

    [​IMG]

    Green/Orange stopped being the default for everyone later with default orange/blue coming in and JSA getting red/white/black as their colours. Tiger Soldiers were slated as IA, and were the ones to start rocking the Orange/Green again.

    I think you also have a very significant misunderstanding of how commission painters such as Angel work. They don't just give him the model and say have at it. He'll ask them for the colour scheme they want, and he'll work with them during the painting process and make sure they're happy with the result before finishing it.
     
    #68 Triumph, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    new angle

    [​IMG]
     
    Mikes likes this.
  10. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    Best painted Starter Box. Nuff Said.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  11. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Really?! I hadn't realized that. So, looks like the Haidao, Hac Tao, and Guijia are all one branch, the Daoying and Zhanshi another, and the rest the IA branch. Any idea what the other two branches are?

    Ooooh. Wait, Haidaos? You mean Daoyings. That would make the Zhanshi also fleet forces technically, considering the icon is the same as the Daoying's. Makes a lot more sense then considering this artwork:
    [​IMG]

    Note that the Hac Tao has gotten orange added to him, while the Zhanshi seems to have the same dark blue scheme that the Daoying dossier was painted with.

    They're also not consistent between units. The original 3 Celestial Guard have orange ankle armor, while the 4 CG SWC box has silver ankle armor. WTF.

    As a painter myself I concur ^^^ Which is why as someone trying to mimic the IA colors, this inconsitency bugs the crap out of me lol. I have people asking me to paint Zhanshi in IA colors but I can't decide which parts to paint which color cus they're all over the damn place >.<

    But then why do Liu XIng and Tigers have different color schemes? If AD troops are their own 'branch' why do they not even match within a branch? Urg.
     
  12. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Mmmkay I just REALLY do not like that teal blue on the Daoying. The dossier had this cool dark blue color that IMO DOES look very naval, but this blue especially on the arms and legs is too close to PanO for my liking. Wish they'd stuck with a pure, royal blue at least.

    Also why is the Haidao's armor highlighted so much brighter than the Liu Xing's? And why do the Zuyongs ONLY use orange? :\

    I love all the models and the colors are all beautiful! I just am confused by the inconsistency :)
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    They're not in the same branch anymore. At some point Tigers being IA was retconned.


    Just explain the two colour schemes you're looking at, explain which one you think will look better in your opinion as a painter, then ask them to make a final decision on what they want.


    I don't know if you're aware of this, but not every soldier in the military has identical gear even if they serve in the same branch, even if they're in the same unit.

    "I was sort of the platoon “gear guinea pig.” I’d try out foregrips, rail covers, pouches, 40mm grenade bandoliers, rucksacks, all kinds of stuff. If it was good, I kept it and told the Platoon Sergeant about it, and he’d try to pass the word up to the First Sergeant that it was good and useful. If it sucked, I sold it on ebay to airsofters. A buddy turned me onto Tactical Tailor’s FLCs and pouches while we were in Afghanistan in 06–07, and by the Iraq deployment, half the battalion was using Tactical Tailor gear. I privately purchased a Crane stock, a thicker, better 3-point sling, a pistol grip, and a specialized foregrip that fit on my M203 for my Iraq deployment. I wore privately-purchased boots and gloves, a Tactical Tailor MAV instead of the issue MOLLE vest (used the pouches, though, those were excellent), a 12 round 40mm bandolier from Tactical Tailor, a Tactical Tailor rucksack with the old ALICE-style frame, and custom glasses (needed them at the time, got surgery later)."

    This goes even further when you're talking about soldiers stationed on different planets and getting their stuff from different suppliers and manufacturers. A CG stationed on Shentang is probably getting different boots from a CG stationed on Dawn or Svarlheima, much like this guy who was buying himself different boots, along with a bunch of his platoon members.

    The real explanation here is Angel had more time to paint these minis and had more time to pick out extra detail. Doesn't change that you're being weirdly obsessive over it though. It's not like he actually changed the colour scheme and they're suddenly purple and green or something.
     
    #73 Triumph, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Zhanshi aren't navy. They're army.

    Haidao are Navy. Haidao are something like a SEAL team 6 operative who is designed to be deployed with other units to lend expertise in a specialist area, such as hacking, sniping, etc. to help them on their specific mission.

    Daoying are officers that graduate from a specific military academy, that Sun Tze teaches at. They're again a separate thing. They're essentially a type of specialist officer loaned from the Military Academy of Polyvalent Command.
     
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  15. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    I really hope those boarding shotgun models have the arms detachable. I like the ariadna and new yu jing boarding shotgun designs and tend to put them on other factions boarding shotgun models.
     
  16. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Mismatch bugs me. Inconsistency bugs me more :) I'm just trying to figure out a single unified color scheme, and am disappointed that Angel or whoever didn't manage to stick to one for IA. Oh well. Guess I'll have to invent it on my own :)

    Thanks for judging me weirdly obsessive. Sure way to win friends :)
     
  17. sevsterino

    sevsterino Well-Known Member

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    The reality is much more complex than you describe. If we must go into more details to explain, here we go. The green color on the 2nd edition / early 3rd edition versions of Celestian Guards, Zhansis and the Tigers that you showed are just that, 2nd/early 3rd edition colors where all cloth was green in ISS (Celestian Guards, Kuang Shis) and vanilla (Zhanshi). Before Red Veil the cloth colors were changed to a mix of blue (Prussian Blue) with green (Heavy Black Green). What you see in Red Veil box or on Zhanshis and Pheasant is the same color as what you see in ISS box, only that the ISS box has higher proportion of Prussian Blue in it. If you add Light Skin Tone to the mix for the 1st highlight (what Angel does) you will get the color of Red Veil. As Angel said in one of his book he does not use exact proportions when he mixes the colors and as I found out in case of Prussian Blue and Heavy Black Green these colors are so strong that it is hard to get exact same color twice. I believe that is what happened there and it has nothing to do with Tiger being IA or WB, it is rather the liberty painters take in painting the miniatures.
    Edit: I forgot to add, new Celestian Guard box, Zhanshis box, and Kuang Shi are a proof that all YJ cloth is being painted with the same color, while according to the dossier it should be different for ISS (urban dark grey/blue) and IA and Vanilla (blue/green). I honestly think Angel never realized the difference.
    https://imgur.com/a/e4WiJxJ
     
    #77 sevsterino, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  18. Miraclebutt

    Miraclebutt Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for the previous poster, but I can't imagine wanting to spend a lot of time around someone who makes a habit of pointing out inconsequential inconsistencies.

    That aside, I had a game with the Liu Xing and I'm very impressed with the Specialist Operative Multi-Rifle profile. I'm looking forward to being able to use everything in the box, it's remarkably good value considering what a lot of starters have to deal with.
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think he did. He took the time to do the upper body cloth on the CG's as the grey, but decided to do the pants in the blue.
     
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    Part of this is down to CB never actually explaining what different logo colouration means. To be precise, the Haidao were developed by the Yu Jing Navy under the Special Operations section blanket (that is, they're in the arm of the StateEmpire army where anything that isn't a Zhanshi or Invincible falls). From what we can tell, the red/black/white logos are merely the "standard" StateEmpire army logo. Red/yellow appear to be specific Invincible Army units (though oddly the Zhencha has what we assumed was a WB-style logo despite not mentioning a single thing about it in their fluff, which is super confusing because the Zhencha fluff also doesn't clarify how Daofei were retconned out of IA and treats Zhencha as if they were always the armored recon section of IA... despite the logo implying that they aren't actually part of IA either *sigh* ).

    But unless something comes along to contradict it, the White/Black/Red logos appear to be just general StateEmpire units that could crop up anywhere. In the case of the Zhanshi, they are specifically what actually constitutes the Banner Armies, while everything else broadly falls under the Special Operations section of the StateEmpire army.

    Now of course, reading too much in to the logos is a bad idea because there are still some weird issues with consistency that we can only guess at (e.g. Why does the Daoying have the full white laurels instead of white and black? I can get that it may not be in Special Operations, but until now the all-white laurels on StateEmpire logos have basically just been for Banner troops, which the Daoying is definitely not).

    But this just gets back to the whole "we know so few specifics about the setting" thing I was banging on about earlier in another thread. A logo design and style guide would be the exact sort of thing that would make for a great jumping off point when discussing military organization in Yu Jing for example. I mean, we still have no specific clue what the all-black laurels of the Guija and Sun Tze mean, or why our Doctors and Engineers (who are explicitly Zhanshi) have the same logo design as our remotes. I'm sure there are operational differences that are being conveyed by those unit logos, but since we never get to see the logic or background behind it, we can only make guesses. I'd take a whole section about organizational minutiae in the StateEmpire army over another "and so [X] is the most bad-ass unit to have ever existed, they are the most bastardy bastards to ever bastard a bastard, and this entry is okay because it is written from an in-universe propaganda perspective, pls no bully".