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Invincible Army Pre Pre Mortom

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by atomicfryingpan, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Different mileage for different folks I guess. I just struggle to grasp how it plays out on the table (obviously because I just don't play enough):

    1. A unit with 2 rules that are much less beneficial if your using a short skill on your 2nd short every few orders; losing camo state, and not climbing around.
    2. Using short skills on a unit with short ranged weaponry and awesome mobility skills.
    3. Using shorts skills every 4-8".

    But maybe thats why I think the zhencha is a good unit right now, because I'm not trying to use it like a midfield gunfighter (where 4-2 wouldn't be as big a deal), when its skills and equipment clearly don't benefit that use.


    nice little petulant insult thrown in the middle!
     
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  2. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    shock is a problem. Its hardly insurmountable and the zhencha certainly brings tools (or friends like the lu duan) to resolve them. and against NOT shock, they're going to be little devils.

    Had a game where I could have used a zhencha to climb up a sniper nest and plonk a mine next to the sniper from behind... results in hilarity for reactive snipers. Or open up to hopefully guarantee deadness.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Alphz I'm not taking about using the Zhencha for gunfighting, more for being able to make a run for an objective that's protected by mines. As it stands it's still very weak to that, seemingly by design - perpetuating the noninteractive mines/camo spam aspect of the game.
     
    #383 Hecaton, Nov 30, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  4. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I just feel the Zhencha is too vincible.
     
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  5. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

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    Kind of disappointed you missed the opportunity to say Squalo -Squared.
     
  6. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Thoughts of the night, because the empire never sleep (seriously, my consumption of coffee has skyrocketed lately):

    - If you have a shotgun pangulling and an Haidao KHD in the same team you can have some really good coverage since it allow you to move and hack through the repeater in the same order, like scylla.

    - Also, the repeater on the pangulling can be used by your hacker to spotlight and make Tai sheng's or a Hulang's Stun/EM grenades more accurate when spec fired (18 if in range, 21 for Tai sheng in a 5-man team).

    Also, i'm going to test the following list this sunday:

    Power Pack
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenade / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenade, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    2.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Mission will be power-pack, and my opponent will bring his Starco. Won't be easy, but i'm up for the challenge!
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    SMGs, marksmanship skill, multi weapons, Red Fury, knives/Shock CCWs (though I'm willing to grant those should be deadly, you can't armor the places a knife will put a person down hard, fast, and permanently), and I feel like I'm missing some things...



    Yes, ARM is probably the single most overcosted stat in the game. Maybe N4 will turn ARM into steps of +3 like BTS? Then it'd be worth the current points costs.

    But I think wounds are actually costed about right.


    *baps @colbrook with a dead fish-man*

    Ugh, terrible puns!



    Yes, it's interesting to compare the differences between MO and IA. Now that they're out, IA *may* be better than MO in terms of mission capabilities. The extra orders are hard to ignore. But MO appears to be tougher to kill, so many of the new models in IA are 1W+NWI as opposed to 2W in MO.

    I mean, I seem to be focusing on a list like this:
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenade / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    4.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    By my count that's 12 orders in a single combat group.



    But it didn't have to be!

    And that's what we're irked about.
     
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  8. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Hi there, been testing IA for an upcoming tournament (missions will be Biotechvore, Decapitation and Firefight), and I have some early opinions about units that I'd like to bring onto the table, especially this Core link/Lt setup.

    +4 orders Pain Train
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    ZÚYǑNG Boarding Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 26)

    5.5 SWC | 220 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I love the Daoying, I think it's an amazing lieutenant trooper. He can either use his double Lt. orders to apply supportware/surprise shoot/place defensive mines by himself or feed them to a NCO while being really resilient thanks to Camo.

    Moving on to the Core, I have to say that particular layout is really expensive, but worth it. The two Tactical Sense profiles not only bring the extra orders but also the big, active turn guns. And they know how to use them.

    Tai herself doesn't look that tough on paper, but the array of firearms and high BS/WIP she has pay off on the field. Template? Check. Breaker? Check. Flash Pulse? Check. I completely forgot about her being a FO the first time, that makes her a good ARO piece IMO (I'm not sold on the Mk12 profile yet, I think the Tinbot adds a lot to the team).

    Ok, Haidao MSV2 MSR: this guy is a proper ARO piece that can take on active-turn-killing duty against Camo/TO/Mimetism dudes and dudettes. He's like our version of the linked Kamau, but trading mimetism for an extra wound (which I'd argue is better). The BSG Zuyong is just a cheap-yet-2W model to fill the roster.

    I managed to build a LI list with 14 orders for that link, and it did work both times. Even though you can make it way cheaper with Panggulings and the like, I think this version is amazingly well rounded and can make enemies cower in fear. Really, it is good, try it and see if it fits your playstyle.

    NOTE: I've been using the Haidao MSV2 as an ARO piece on rooftops when going second against alpha-strikers and keeping a backup Pangguling/second Haidao close by to reform the link after it dies (to move out on the active turn). The MSR usually does damage and drinks up a lot of orders.

    Firefight stravaganza
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    DĀOYĪNG (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    2 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I built this list kinda as a joke when Zhencha and Liu Xing where the only spoiled units for IA. It had an additional Zhencha, Zhanshi Lt. and Pangguling EVO hacker. After falling in love with the Daoying and realizing going second with it sucked, It evolved into this.

    It actually works, not kidding. If you win the Lt. roll you want to go first and start raining fire from above after using the Daoying to put the supportware and re-camo with his Lt. orders, then shooting what you can with BSG 2w models on their DZ. I have actually killed zero units with the template, and I've taken A LOT of wounds while landing... But having a second wound and a +6 mod to the shootout afterwards makes a real difference, I have erased a couple of link teams with one or two dudes.

    If you go second, everything but your FP bot is in camo or outside of the table. You can place Zhenchas and your sniper to slow down the opponent enough, although you want to save those bodies as much as you can to fuel the meteors.

    Zhenchas do work, like we know they could. Push the buttons, lay the mines, coordinate the DEPs against beefy targets and drop into SMG SF above roofs... Just great.

    Anyway, just wanted to chip in some things I've tried. Will be back with detailed batreps of the tournament, maybe someone finds them useful.

    Cheers!
     
    #388 Joametz, Dec 1, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If a dev is ignoring either of those, they're not doing their job properly.
     
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  10. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    Because they have white masks. Much respectful. Very wow.
     
  11. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    A Dev can listen, but come to their own conclusion. A Dev who servilely follows the forums' every whim isn't doing a great job either, even if they seem more popular...
     
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  12. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    What? Because everything a consumer says is a river of gold from which self improvement Springs.

    Please. It's a river of something, but not gold.

    If you think people should listen to feedback that is worded lazily or rudely then boy do I have news for you. People barely care what others have to say, if you can't even be bothered to package it up to be slightly more palatable, why should people bother to listen?
     
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  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Because it is literally their job to figure out why, whether right or wrong, that your consumer base is complaining about something. Whether they're right or not is completely irrelevant. The fact that they're complaining about something, means you should look into it to at the very least, figure out if you need to do something about it.

    They could very well come to the conclusion that the player is an idiot and doesn't know what they're talking about and that no action is needed, but if they're not looking into it then they're not doing their job. This is the point of living rules systems that CB have adopted with their game rather than the traditional print it and leave it for years until the next edition like other systems still use.
     
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  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    These people are doing a job and people doing a job should not need to put up with shitty, unpleasant, aggressive comments that bring the discussion down. They are not obliged to wade through your shit to see if there's any gold in it just because you decided to drop a full load online.

    As multiple people have tried to tell you, repeatedly, it's not necessarily that you're not happy, it's that you insist on putting your complaints in such obnoxious terms and then you get shirty when people say "hey can you please not." People are not going to consider what you say with an open mind when you are so hugely combative and dismissive of others.
     
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  15. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    There are ways to deliver criticism where it will be heard. There is also ways to deliver criticism where it will never be heard...
     
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  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If the models suck, they suck. That's how it is.

    I'll readily change my opinion on units, like the Pheasant, if someone can give me a decent reason to. But you'll find that the majority of people can't because their argument usually boils down to "well I stomped someone with it and I liked it, so it's good." If you make an awful argument prepare for it to get dismissed.
     
  17. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah like I said, it's not really your opinion that is the problem so much as your relentless quest to be as obnoxious about it as possible.

    And sure you can say "why should I moderate my tone when I am right?" and the answer is "because no-one will want to talk to you any more, or listen to your opinions, if you don't." I happen to disagree with you on a few things we've seem discussed in these threads; am I particularly interested in debating them with you? Not remotely. Not because of your opinion but because you're just being exhausting to talk to.

    Take a step back, maybe a break for a few days, chill out a bit, come back with a more personable approach, would be my advice. You can take it or leave it.
     
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  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be of the opinion that I had or have any interest in having a discussion with you. I don't care if you don't want to talk to me, feel free to never do that. I don't mind and I won't take it personally.
     
  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    I'd probably be more sympathetic to CB's plight at the hands of its critics if they didn't, you know, have a history of trolling or making fun of fans and other folks in the player base (which isn't a great idea whether they meant well by it or not). If they can sling jabs, then they can take them. They've made fun of folks for being thin-skinned in the past, so calling for folks to lay off because they might have their feelings hurt is kind of rich at this stage.

    If they want that to stop, then they should probably practice what they preach. Playing victim seems less legitimate when they're the ones who have basically fostered a community where trolling, vitriol, and snide jabs are de rigueur. In the end, they just courted and got the community they deserved. If they want that to change, it will take more than some red text telling folks to play nice.
     
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  20. Scutarii

    Scutarii Active Member

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    As of right now I am pretty happy with IA, fexibility and list building options all over the place, gimmick lists, sensible lists, built around a Core fireteam that's expensive or cheap or building with several smaller fireteams and order efficiency.

    Addmittedly the Daoying is probably the best part of the faction. Which is a bit of a shame for the HI Sectorial in the HI faction but whatever.

    For me it's doubly good because I didn't want to use the ISS models after Uprising either so that book took away JSA and ISS units so my unit roster was even smaller, which is likely feeding into how much happier I am now :)

    PS: I don't need you telling me that 'ISS were always bad, Kuang Shi!'. I am not telling you how to feel about your models/characters/etc. as new media gets released about them, expandng on and adding to their known proclivities. I ask that you extend me the same courtesy.