1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Invincible Army post mortem

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Someone decided to hamfist PH13 on the Zhencha. They also have CC15, Multiterrain, C+ and enforced Specialist Duty (not to even mention the AHD...).
    Dropping them to PH12 alone should cover most of the cost issues and there would have been plenty of room to cover the rest if someone hat wanted to.

    On the plus side, no matter how bad IA is, any spill over from it and the Libertos make Vanilla better. In the end it's gonna be a win, even if the Sectorial might be a disappointment.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    4,669
    Granting hackable HI vulnerabilities to something dies to shock is just dumb. I think @Triumph is being way too negative, but that's definitely a knock on this preview.
     
    Mask, Furiat, Aldo and 5 others like this.
  3. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    228
    Very much this. Good luck moving those Zhencha past a Nomad skirmishing line.
     
  4. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    246
    My thoughts exactly.

    I liked them! I’m also hyped for the Special fireteam options (the possibilities, I mean).

    Zencha is a semi-durable specialist that can be deployed on top of buildings, as a token, and climb down whenever it pleases (while surprise shooting like a boss).

    Big Tiger is sweet, also a specialist with a plus: bomb-raining a specific target on the head.

    Both of them are also fast and different from other profiles we have. Keep in mind Bostria said they are our button pushers, not the meat of our offensive! Those guys will be tougher and deadlier.

    Stop spreading salt and start spreading love for the state-empire, dudes/dudettes!
     
    -Ghost- and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  5. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    75
    Have the YJ forums always been like this? (Rhetorical question, don't answer). I started just after Uprising, which was understandably salt-inducing, but maaan, you guys can be quick to jump on the negativity wagon. I came in pretty stoked for IA but this forum can be a real downer sometimes heh.

    Anyways, the specialist Liu Xing seems alright. The faction is suffering from a real lack of D-Charges, and he's about 9 pts more than the cheapest specialist Tiger. Also, maybe it's a long shot, but after dropping, getting into CC with a heavy non-CC specialist like a TAG and then dropping D-Charges on it might be fun?

    Fingers crossed for a KHD Zhencha profile. I really like the SMG profile though.
     
    jj.konko and Joametz like this.
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    If they shoot they take hits and possibly die, you're trading up on orders. If they engage they avoid the damage and lock your attack piece down. They're better off engaging because the Liu Xing really can't fight worth a damn in CC, it's far less dangerous than leaving him mobile with a shotgun.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    That's a really fast way to get your Liu Xing killed. Even assuming you get into CC with the TAG without dieing somehow, You swing at CC 12 with D Charges. TAGs are generally 18 or better for a couple of them.


    That's the one profile that people seem to universally like, because it's actually good.

    The Shotgun Zencha is too expensive while all he really does is have a large gun that requires him to walk in range of mines to get full effect (and he really does not like mines). He doesn't have any real versitility, unlike the SMG that can suppress, chuck mines, shoot a DEP, etc. It has other avenues available to it. The SMG FO is great, the BS FO is not.

    The AHD is just way too goddamn expensive, it's also inviting another way to get your 41 pt dude killed.

    Yeah that's nice and all but it doesn't fix the problem that the Liu Xing has some big question marks raised over its viability due to Explode being an unknown factor as to actually whether or not it's A) effective and B) worth the risk of screwing the drop.

    It also doesn't fix the part where this faction needs infiltrating/Foward Deployings KHDs yesterday, and the one guy they really really need to have a KHD doesn't have one. This is a pretty big red flag.
     
    #107 Triumph, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
    DFW Ike likes this.
  8. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    It's a bit early to be calling for a post-mortem without seeing the other profiles, but I would be lying if I said I like this trend of 1W HI. lets hope they forgot to put an immunity on the Zhencha profile.
     
    Aldo, krossaks, Zewrath and 2 others like this.
  9. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    75
    I figured you could drop in the back arc and then... ehh, I guess Change Facing slipped my mind. But isn't CC on non-martial artists close to just a dice-off? And the payoff would be 3 AP/EXP rolls.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    No. Against say a standard TAG like a Squalo you're looking at 75% chance you do absolutely nothing, and 44% chance you cop a wound trying to do nothing.

    You have a 25% chance to inflict 1 wound. One.

    In short, bad plan. You're probably forgetting you cop a -3 MOD for trying to melee with D-Charges.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    4,669
    It would have been interesting if the 1w heavy infantry was explicitly YJ ironically cribbing off of Ariadna's power armor to avoid their infiltrators and drop troops being vulnerable to repeater webs.
     
    Section9, jimbo slice and DFW Ike like this.
  12. DFW Ike

    DFW Ike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    218
    or they could have high-tech "stealth" armor that isn't hackable, but is more fragile (which is why they are 1W models)
     
  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    I'd be super surprised if this guy's explode was undodge-able, that seems like something they wouldn't do anymore. especially for the sake of stream lining, I don't see why it wouldn't just be like a dodge from a template outside of LoF, phys -3.
     
    NorthernNomad likes this.
  14. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    167
    I am not happy.
     
    Kallas, Aldo, theradrussian and 3 others like this.
  15. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    228
    Interesting, and it follows historical precedents of technologically superior forces borrowing tactics and strategies from the indigenous populations they encountered/conquered. For example, Roger's Rangers.
     
  16. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    350
    Oh good. So, we've established the profile as sound in principle. Now, we're just haggling over points and gear.

    This is the problem right here. Everyone has this propensity to need KHDs and Infiltrators/FDs. This is the issue. It is a design flaw inherited by the system when it becomes an expectation rather than surprise when a new unit is released or a profile is redone and doesn't have those rules or an option for a KHD because some faction got a Ninja KHD, or a Heckler KHD.

    It's malarky. We did fine before KHDs came along.

    Have you also thought about just the Boarding Shotgun profile? It's enough to run amok and be a pain in the ass for your opponents. No suppression is a bummer, but there are other units that can do suppression even better within the sectorial.
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,283
    Likes Received:
    10,699
    No it's not. NWI (like the 'extra' Wound on Fraacta and Gao-Tarsos) allows tactics that simply can't be done with a Tiger.


    It's definitely a big chunk of their DZ, but it's not their entire DZ unless playing Biotechvore.

    As far as timing goes, that's also going to be critical for Hacker interactions - if it's a DTW-like attack then any Hacker that the Liu Xing tries to land next to is going to have to Hack Transport Aircraft before the Dispersion roll, or declare no ARO because they chose not to ARO when they had the chance.
     
  18. Warhydra

    Warhydra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    185
    Hulang looks like a light TAG for us, consider its placement on that chart, AVA and ability to duo.
    I am quite curious what our "Pirate" turned out to be? This being the State Army I assume its a code name and not their actual profession.
    Overall seems pretty good, though I am a bit disappointed that Hac Tao only AVA 1
     
    Joametz, Hecaton and -Ghost- like this.
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    1,344
    I like the AD HI unit. I think people underestimate the value of having a guaranteed second wound. Being able to tank a wound is a big deal with all the templates and mines out there. Zencha seem similar to Nagas, rather expensive for what they do and vulnerable to shock ammo but no one denys Nagas can be quite effective. I believe Zencha will be the same.

    If the Hulang is a light TAG then thats pretty cool for Yu Jing. It could also be another S5 HI, maybe?

    As for the Hac Tao only being ava1, well apparently Pano's technological superiority shows through the swiss guard having AVA 2 in NCA. :P
     
    Warhydra, -Ghost- and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    Fraacta and Gao Tarsos don't come with the drawback of being HI. The problem we have is he's expensive and he's got a big chunk of his viability riding on an ability nobody knows how it functions, and if you don't risk the biscuit with the drop you end up paying for something you don't use, much like his shitty "enhanced" CC stat.

    Like I said, alot of his viability is riding on the explode rule which we know nothing about. It could make him great, it could make about as useful a defensive hacking device. We don't know.