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Invincible Army post mortem

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Engage requires LoF, so at that point they're probably better off shooting you rather than dodging into melee. Just like the Caskuda of yore, if you want to get a good exploding drop, you need to land behind people.
     
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  2. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    All these people are complaining the that the new drop troop isn't better than the Tiger soldier. While the Tiger soldier is one of best (if not the best) AD troop in the game.
     
  3. Someone

    Someone Active Member

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    Wasn’t there a Tiger Soldier dossier that had them in IA or am I just behind the times on this surprise?
     
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  4. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    It's way too negative for too early on. Most factions would love a model that can do all that. The fact that you can have an SMG start that far up, put it into suppression, and have all that maneuverability makes it worth it. Climbing +, Camo, Infil, FO, SMG, DEP, and mines. You're gonna pay for all that.

    Yes the amount of shock ammo in this game is getting a bit out of hand, but I think once this comes together and we see the bigger picture it won't be as doom and gloom as people are stating.

    We have four units that are new and unaccounted for. All these crazy fire team compositions that aren't in play. New profiles for old units.

    I'm not saying to look at things half full, but damn at least others should try not to piss on the whole faction with just two unit entries.
     
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  5. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    If you want a 20 order list of heavy infantry at 300 points you're being delusional.

    Of course nothing that is not an oniwaban can substitute an oniwaban. Or a shikami or watever we've lost during the uprising. Stop dreaming about the crazy things you have wanted to invincible, set the feets on the ground.

    And about order starvation, how many orders are you thinking would be enough for 1 Rambo? 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14? Or enough to provide a realistic amount of fuel to 2-3 troopers? Quit shitting about what none other faction have and this army will have! wait an see, wait and experience the sectorial, wait and try to see what will become of vanilla yujing

    I asure you it may not be so overpowered as you would want. The concept of a HI list reeks out of a lot of problems, but it surely will be competitive. How many adversary lists in a tournament can stop a firewalled HI droptrooper over any troop head? how many lists are prepared to fight from the front and the back? how many lists are prepared to hold a 11-14 orderpool rambo?

    Yujing alwais has been strugling with pricey Tools. That's why they gave us Kuangshis on vanilla and ISS. The will surely give us somthing inside invincible to fit this pricey units

    The things shown may be simple but what's important I what's gonna be on the whole

    This is probably the only fair complain I've heard. People have been stocking tiger soldiers based on the CB promos, dosiers and painting schemes. To cut out of invincible the tigers is in my opinion a bad move. When it's ovious that a sectorial with AVA4 of droop troopers have enough space to fit in both
     
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  6. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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  7. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Badlazzor, toadchild and Robock like this.
  8. NeonPhoenix

    NeonPhoenix Member

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    whoa there cowboy. read again. fully realize a HI theme army wasn't going to be 20 order monster. nor was i asking for oni's. nor was a begging for 14 orders to rambo units. hell i even said "so let's wait and see".

    just pointing out that people can certianly have high expectations, and i don't see what so worng with being concerned about the potential "order stravtion" problem.

    all in all, dude. i agree let's wait and see, but let's not shit on those that express concerns (whether fully "valid" or not)
     
    Kallas likes this.
  9. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    For some, the issue is that concern (valid or not) seems to pass far too easily into panic (valid or not, I lean towards invalid), especially because some (in fact, most) of the need information isn't available.
     
  10. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    People can want cutters at 10p but they shouldn't be complaining if they don't get them. That's why im talking about put the feet on the ground

    If the zencha and the liuxing are pseudo HIs It surely is for a very good reason. As I've said enough times already, this sectorial has been on playtesting for more than 3 years facing the new generation of sectorials and the old one. This profiles are not improvised or lack any kind of testing
     
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  11. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Hollow-Men (Hollow-Women?) equivalent?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Wow, that response went from zero to entire legion worth of strawman very fast... O_o
     
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  13. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Perhaps this might be our very first ARO piece that's worth something? Who knows.
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    "Better" is subjective and tends to also make the price tag have variation. The Liu Xing toes very close to the point where it is both worse in a straight up fight (do you want to win the fight or do you want to be able to try one more time if you fail? Is a 70% vs 20% better or worse than two 55% vs 30%?) and also more expensive, and since the Liu Xing is otherwise missing very many tools this means the discrepancy would need to lie in what exactly ExplodeX does.
    Is it Explode 1 on landing?
    Is it Explode 1 where you intended to land, regardless of Dispersion?
    Is it higher DAM than Explode 1? DA? EXP?
    Does it leave a Smoke cover?
    Does the Liu Xing shoot this like a Light Grenade Launcher on landing?
    Can it be shot close to where the Liu Xing lands?
     
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    The new YJ Profiles seem all over the place as well. Calling non Ariadna troops without true 2W HI isn't that much of a problem in terms of mechanics, okay they can be hacked, sure. But building up the idea that IA is supposed to be playable with full HI lists and then skipping on that promise by changing what HI is would classify as a dick move where I come from.
    Sure, Ariadna has 1W Dogged/NWI HI - but you might notice how those have Shock Immunity and aren't hackable.

    That said it's just two Profiles, all new Factions had underwhelming additions and the world doesn't end from that. Calling this a Postmortem while being blissfully unaware that AVA4 Zhanshi just means Wildcards and "Counts as Zhanshi for Fireteamcomposition" will be necessary to form full Links probably tells you more about the autor of that statement than IA.
    Gotta admit so far it's not looking great and there is reason for concern, but prematurely starting a witchhunt reeks of the anti-Uprising circlejerk all over again. I'd recommend to stay the hell away from those guys.

    Very true buddy, can only agree.

    However CB decides on testing and design these days is a big questionmark for me. There has been more hit than miss for the entire year. Every NA2 Faction, Tunguska, TAK and Vedic have huge internal balance issues.
    The Dire Foe update with Uprising was another sorry excuse for an actual change.
    Now SAA just mixed and matched the best choices together in one super link and revamped the Montesa. The unused options remain bad and on the sidelines.

    Whoever is contributing to these decisions is doing a very shoddy job. Pretty sure that's mostly CB staff and unpaid volunteers, but let's not confuse an explanation for an excuse here. This is about what you can expect when your test group isn't carefully selected with their data under meticulous oversight.
    No one is really to blame for it, but it could be a hell of a lot better and that's a true shame.
     
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  16. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    You already want to kill tags or HIs on landing? or a smoke combo directional? again, that's what I've meant when saying put the feet on the ground

    how the kascuda explosion was like? I will not expect a much better skill, nor a much worse one. That's precisely the referent they gave us
     
  17. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Hoping it's our source of MSV2. As of now it's just the Rui Shi.
     
  18. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Explode: This Special Skill is used by a figure to explode after it falls into an Unconscious state. The area of explosion is that of a Circular Template, causing 13 Shock Damage to all in the area. The detonation caused by this Special Skill can be Dodged by passing a PH-6 Roll. Exploding is a Short Skill that allows the figure to explode at any moment he deems suitable, after passing a Normal WIP Roll. Activating this Special Skill will provoke a rapid death in its bearer.

    Exploding can be used in CC substituting the CC Attribute with WIP, the figure Exploding rather than causing a hit: this allows the figure to Explode without being Unconscious first.

    In the specific case of T.A.G.s with Combat Jump, such as the Caskuda, the explosion is only produced when hitting the ground: the figure will not suffer any damage and will not be able to explode again.​

    So most of that is not relevant; please note that the PH-6 dodge roll was the standard for dodging any template at the time. If a Caskuda dropped near you you had the possibility of dodging, although the odds were terrible.

    Edit: Of course, back then you could not dodge at all without LoF. Change Facing didn't allow you to dodge attacks, and you did not get an automatic dodge ARO for being hit from a template out of LoF.
     
  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I think smoke is more urgent knowing that we know for sure we have at least have one visor
     
    #99 the huanglong, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
    Ten Thousand Arrows likes this.
  20. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Pretty much this. I'd be a lot less angry if they had straight up admitted that some of the new fancy units would'nt be HI, but tanky LI/MI. If the profiles are good or not is beside the point really, i find them really good but those nomenclatural shenanigans...

    I wouldn't go as far as calling it a betrayal, but yeah, it definitely is a dick move.


    On a side note i'm wondering how much more expensive those 2 guys would have been with 2 proper wounds. If i look at moblot vs zuyong i don't feel like it would cost much to add a 2nd wound instead of NWI, let alone with bio-immunity on top of it.
    Maybe it was a pure balance decision, because they deemed a discount HI skirmisher or pure drop HI too good...
     
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