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Invincible Army post mortem

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Funny, it's missions like these where I miss the Shikami and I don't like the Shikami in the new JSA. A cruel fate! :see_no_evil:
     
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  2. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    IDK if you play Morats or Combined the Rasyat destroys heaters extremely easily. It can air drop in with Eclipse grenades, D-Charges and CC 21!
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yup. It's pure gold for that mission. Reasonably protected, easy to hide, and can take out most things. Considering literally all missions are going to have exclusion zones to boot, I'll likely just go JSA for that mission (which is a shame now that I've based and touched up the paint job on a bunch of stuff from the Red Veil and Beyond)

    Ah yes... the highly useful segment of the CC skill scale. I'm telling you, now that JSA has left us, so has the "Yu Jing is a melee faction" ideal as well. The two new ones so far? CC15.
     
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  4. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    I really don't get all the salt, but that's probably because everything I've seen so far is an answer to something I struggled with for years as a vanilla Ariadna player. I really like the "yeah I can literally just drop a template wherever i want" jump troop and the "good luck dislodging this fucker in SF" infiltrating specialist

    This is really tempting me to start yet another army
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You either need a really strong repeater network with stuff like deployable repeaters and pitchers, which Yu Jing does not have, especially when you remove their only deployable infiltrating repeaters which are on the guilangs.

    Or you need to infiltrate with some marker state KHDs. Ninjas, Bandits, etc. Given that the Zencha is the prime candidate to fill this role and they don't have a KHD we have a problem here.
     
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  6. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even look at the CC of the jump troop at first, but I agree having only CC 15 is actually a huge downside. With explode level X you are going to want to drop in right next to units to catch them in the template. But, if they manage to dodge the explosion with a dodge-engage, then you are suddenly trapped in CC.
     
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  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Drop a mine and watch the Zencha sweat bullets because shock ammo and they're only HI in every way that isn't useful, because you know you most people can hack them to push them out of SF mode.

    Seriously these stupid pseudo HI should've just been 4-4 MI NWI or CB should've just bit the bullet and made them discounted 2W models instead of this points cost algorithm gymnastics bullshit.

    They're not that hard to move.
     
  8. Antares

    Antares Well-Known Member

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    I too don't get the negativity.
    Oh my, the new units are all hackable?! Where's the cheap core link?!
    This is Invincible Army, it's about HI and HI alone and we've all known that since the beginning. No surprises here. Personally, I love it because I've feared that in the end ppl would play Invincible Army without Invincibles because they are too expensive. This will make a super themed army with new rules and mechanics. Who cares if the profiles aren't the best and lord forbid, they have weaknesses? Games aren't fun if they make it easy for you, and I can already see IA totally shining in local metas with less hacking.

    Can't wait for the models! Yu Jing number one!
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me for not wanting to be inundated with a bunch of garbage models to replace my Oniwabans that I was enjoying just fine thank you very much. I don't think it's much to ask to not receive stupid shit like 4 man core links for line infantry, or rehashing the 1 HI+4 cheerleader link that ISS already does (and will probably continue to do better).
     
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  10. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Then why aren't the new units true HI?
     
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  11. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

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    One thing to remember is that both OSS and TAK had profiles show up in Army at release that were not shown to us prior to that. Admittedly, we both also had profiles shown to us that didn't make the initial small selection of Army additions, but that was because they were only giving us what was in Coldfront and Beyond - you guys won't have that, because you're getting the full army in November with the box in January. So although some of the things you're disappointed with are the raw statline and won't be fixed by more profiles for that statline, things like no KHD options can be.

    I know Yu Jing's been having a hard year with the Uprising and all, but there's still hope.
     
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  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely, they appear to have switched formats this time around and are just posting if certain profiles are only available in sectorial, see the Montessa spoilers for the specialist biker. The odds are what we see is what we get.
     
  13. Antares

    Antares Well-Known Member

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    That bothers me too actually. Let's hope the rest of them will be true HI
     
    Sedral likes this.
  14. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    Rui Shi with AVA2. Yes, baby. I dont think that IA will near as strong as ISS, but not every sectorial has to go balls out crazy like ISS does in powerlevel and thats totally fine.

    For me personal, I think with Hac Tao, Zhencha, Rui Shi and MAYBE some smoke you can get shit done. I dont really care much about those Vanilla HI options like Zuyong, Shang Ji or Xan Hou, because I think they re plain and boring. Thats why I like the Zhencha.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    What bothers me the most is that from what I remember IJW write is that Hackable trait of HI doesn't contribute any points reductions, even though it is a very real concerns - i.e. exactly the same units as these, but made from the Yadu template would cost exactlt the same but be unhackable, and this is exposing a rather serious design flaw.
    If hackable came with an additional 5 point drop in points it would make much more sense, but so far the profile selection we see with non-existant friendly repeater markers and extremely expensive known KHD, what is communicated is Fear The Hacker. Or rather, a couple of Barid, a Fanous, and a Hunzakut or two will shut this army down (and that's not even taking into account the Haqq-unique Muttas).

    This is a genuine concern since even with Deflector the best you can do is "dodge".

    On my wishlist atm is:
    Haidao with KHD access
    Hunlong (?) with smoke grenades
    Updated Guijia so it can do more than just be a Standard Gun Platform 2a.
     
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  16. Whaleofforum

    Whaleofforum Well-Known Member

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    It really is ridiculous someone would make such a long post listing all of the perceived cons while weighing barely any of the pros or the needs for the cons to, I dunno, balance the game, especially when the rules aren't completely released, no one has even built a list much less played a game with them. This happens frequently with new releases taking the tone of a laughably misguided consumer protection attitude. I guess some people expect their wishes to come true, creatonc their own expectations and when they don't see what they conjured up in their half baked imagination, they write down everything they can that's negative to protect those ideas, what they couldn't will to happen
     
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  17. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I'm definitely going to hold off on judgement until we see the full picture. If we can assume that the army chart is accurate (and I don't know how unreasonable that assumption might be) then I will say that I'm surprised that there is no Sun Tze. I also don't get AVA 4 and duo on the Yan Huo, but maybe that profile is going to get a tweak. I"m also really hoping that Shang Ji get a makeover that make them distinct from Wu Ming and a little more flavorful than slightly better Zuyong.
     
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  18. mittenninja

    mittenninja Invincibles NCO
    Warcor

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    You do realize there are still 4 units and a character we know nothing about right? There is a very real possibility that some of these issues are addressed with them.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Ah. You must have skipped a few words in my post. Yes, I do realize this which is why I wrote "so far", "Haidao" and what should have been "Hulang" which all show that I'm analysing the current known unit list and backdropping it against the unknown qualities of to be announced future profiles.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well, so far I’m a bit disappointed. :unamused:

    Liu Xing: The 1 wound+NWI sucks to me. Even with Bioimmunity, 2 wounds, shock or not, he goes dead. Not unconscious. The Fracta and Gao-Tarsos have him beat by actually having 2 wounds and able to be revived if goes unconscious, and cheaper! The Explode on the Liu Xing is an interesting toy but it’s not amazing. I’d rather they did something like automatic smoke generator as he lands. Also disappointing he only has a regular CCW and no Marital Arts. We really need some DA especially for some missions. PH12!!!??? Yuan Yuan are not heavy and have a PH of 14!! WTF? :astonished:

    Zhencha same as above. But also really expensive! It would have been a lot happier with Limited camo, FD Level 2, and Mimetisim. It would have kept the price down. Then they could have made him a real Heavy! I can’t see taking more than 1 of this, only infiltrator so far for IA. I think it’s funny he has a better PH than the Liu Xing! In a sad kind of funny. And BS12 for a heavy is kind of pathetic.:sleepy:

    For the IA list in general, I’m disappointed we didn’t get Tiger Soldiers or Sun Tze and it would have been nice to be able to take more than one Hac Tao even if it’s crazy. It certainly makes me NOT want to buy the Zhanshi SWC box now. You’d think that the Invincible ARMY would get Sun Tze. A military tactical genius reduce to working for the police. No Hsien Lt. to try to save on SWC either.

    Daoying and Haidao are coming in after Zhanshi so I’m not sure if that means they are line troops or Medium Infantry. So far, it looks like IA can’t take advantage of the new Bravery rule if they are all Heavy and Light.

    Haidao symbol looks like a combination of an Anchor and Trident so maybe some Amphibious unit?

    My buddy that speaks mandarin says Hu (Tiger) Lang (wild, wolf) used together means something vicious and savage. The symbol also has an animal-like look to it. Not sure what it’s going to mean for them but being only AVA2 and Duo and coming in the list after Guijia, I’m hoping for new TAGs :grinning:. But it’s more likely it’s that they are next to the Zhencha, so maybe some sort of infiltrating CC specialist. Still good :grinning:. If it was Warband, it would come after the Zhencha. So he’s some sort of Skirmish troops.

    I really hope we get some sort of Chain of Command, otherwise we care kind of screwed with some missions. So far I’m only seeing MSV2 on Rui Shi and MSV1 on Lu Duan. That doesn’t seem good, or even Sensor on anything other than the Weibing. Could be worse I guess.

    I really don’t understand why only 1 Doctor and 2 Engineers. There’s a lot of really expensive troops that NEED a Doctor.

    I really hope we get some help against Hackers because it’s like a hacker dream so far!

    It’s even more sad for me because PanO stole the Heavy Bikers I really wanted! :sob:
     
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