Agreed! I really hope that the lack of Shock Immunity is a typo on the profile image. That would really fix most of the issues I have. Yeah, I wish it had 2W, but apparently that isn't going to happen (and would be a ~10+pt increase, which makes for a really damn expensive skirmisher).
Yeah, the Zencha really needs at least Shock Immunity (because that is kind of the bare minimum we have for everything designated as HI to date, remember that it is base line on every single HI unit in Ariadna regardless of whether they're 1W, 1W+Dogged, or 1W+NWI). But in general, the amount extra that it is paying almost suggests it is missing Bioimmunity. This would be easy to clear up if CB would confirm if this missing skill (either Shock or Bioimmunity) was a type, but then, they never really talk to the community so that's probably expecting too much. So sadly it looks like we're waiting until November to find out whether this was an oversight or if the Zencha is really meant to be the flimsiest HI in the game (i.e., the only one to date that dies automatically to Shock ammo).
I bet it isn't a typo. There is a chance CB will see the error of their ways and add it when the units hit Army. But then they'll just claim it was a typo to cover up their failure.
Well I'd take that over getting saddled with a shite unit for 5+ years until CB can be arsed to revamp them (or more likely now... shelve them indefinitely, discontinue the models, and offer a slight update as a consolation prize). If only the Crane and Pheasant had been so lucky in 2nd Edition!
Yeah, with AVA 2 Hac Tao and AVA 5 Zhanshi I would have been pretty close to being able to play Yu Jing the way I want. Oh well, White Banner when?
Kind of an inevitability with making almost every option a HI. Leaving them all at 2w would result in them being far too costly to field.
Sonofa! You're right! The only Ariadnan HI that don't have Shock Immunity are the Ratnik and Blackjack, which have 2W natively via Low-Tech. Guess this means that the definition of HI in this game is something that is immune to shock (whether by special rule or 2W). I'm still not entirely sold on the Liu Xing's role, though. Not to forget the lack of Tigers and Daofei. Seriously, WTF, CB!?!
Yeah, I hear you. The StateEmpire special forces being present in the IA made a lot of sense, and the Daofei had long been set up as literally part of the IA since back before sectorials were even a thing. At the end of the day, the IA was the "new school" Yu Jing military unit to contrast whatever the Banner Armies were (massed light infantry, cheap troops, expendable, etc.). They were the perfect place to not only allow Yu Jing's HI focus to shine, but to also showcase our currently orphaned special forces units like Tiger Soldiers (as well as act as an excuse to create more mid-cost units as part of the special forces, because JSA took a lot of our mid-cost stuff with it). When I heard the Daofei was out, that was probably the first time I was worried about what CB were doing with the IA. Then I saw the concept for the Zencha and thought maybe it wouldn't be so bad... but then the Zencha turns out to be an Aleph-style advanced LI unit wearing (hackable) HI drag and... But them also backtracking on Tiger Soldiers? I would trade these new units for the old ones to be in-sectorial in an instant. This really wasn't supposed to be such a clusterfuck, but maybe IA were in development too long and they just sort of lost the plot? I really hope the other profiles are worthwhile because the IA we're getting just doesn't feel like the IA they've been hyping up since back in 2nd Edition (I'd say 1st, but back then we didn't know sub-factions were even going to be a thing down the road). I'm still wondering what the retcon on the Daofei is myself, because absolutely nothing to date has contradicted its inclusion in the IA and CB have certainly had numerous attempts to correct this since N3.
I'm pretty sure if they were to say what section 9 said about there might not be typical HI in the sectorial I think people would have still been just as negative. People would have immediately started thinking worst case scenario.
Yeah, we probably would have wanted some clarification on that, but it would not have been the case of the new teaser-showcase units for the HI sectorial not being 'true HI' coming out of nowhere. I admit, I think I'm starting to come around on the Zhencha. Has anyone hacked the points cost for Shock (or Bioimmunity) and NWI, versus 2W?
I don't have the exact points cost as Explode LX is still a mystery, but the Boarding Shotgun Liu Xing and Zuyong have an identical statline save for 2W vs. 1W+NWI+Bioimmunity and CCW and Pistol vs. 2 Breaker Pistols, and the Liu Xing packing AD:4 and Explode LX. Liu Xing is just 6 points more than Zuyong, and I'm pretty sure that AD:4 is a pricey skill, so my guess is that the Liu Xing pseudo-2W is about 4-5 points cheaper than real 2W.
OK team, the thread is starting to slide back into that cynical shitposting again. We were getting somewhere for a bit, maybe try tone it down a touch.
Something not touched on yet, to my knowledge, is the unit logos of several unreleased units. The Hai Dao, as mentioned way earlier in the thread, has an anchor and trident suggesting it is an engineering unit, with all that entails (could be any or all of Engineer, Mines, Minesweeper, D-Charges or something entirely new). Zhencha has its bow and arrow. The Daoying, Hulang and Mowang all have animal-themed logos- bird for the Daoying, possibly a bull for Mowang and tiger for Hulang. Anyone with a better grasp on Asian cultures then me able to provide any insight on what these might mean in context as the symbol of a military unit?
Thread is wrong and outdated. Here's the newer ruling from a year later where IJW points out his ruling in the thread you linked was incorrect http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/42763-dodge-plus-explode/#comment-808599 Selective reading I see. They don't start in the right place, and Yu Jing doesn't have a repeater network to make them support from the backline. Not to mention a 69pt KHD does not fit into alot of lists, be realistic. That's a 1/4 chance your "I need this to press buttons or I can't win piece" dies and you lose the game. They're too valuable to risk walking over mines, shit I won't even do that with Ninjas or Guilangs unless the game has gone to a very poor and desperate state. IA also doesn't have the usual mess of dirt cheap Warband suspects to run over mines for them either.
@atomicfryingpan I'm ok with pseudo HI like the Liu Xing. I think there'd be a lot less negativity going around if the Zhencha had shock or bioimmunity though. I could see running two of them occasionally if that was the case. It's not a bad profile, except for that one critical error. There's still a lot we don't know, and I really do hope IA is good. It just really sucks to see CB stumbling over themselves again and again. I think they set some pretty unrealistic goals to hit this year. 6 new sectorials (if you include IA, which you should) and 2 books is a lot to push out, and when production volume of any kind is too high, quality slips. It's a worrying trend to see happening.
You're right, it does feel pretty toxic here, not least because those who are excited are also being told not to be. The atmosphere is almost like a Brexit or Trump Facebook argument at times. For the record, I think it's okay for anyone to be disappointed - after all, my first forays into vanilla Yu Jing had the Shinobu all the time, but equally it's okay to have your interest piqued by something unexpected - curiosity is just as natural. To be told that your curiosity isn't right, and that it can't work is just as controlling...
I've been looking through Army builder, although I have a far from encyclopedic knowledge of all the factions - is there a camo, infiltrating specialist in the game who is impervious to mines? Well, the Daofei hacker, I suppose, but every other specialist can be stopped by mines. Feels like this is intentional by design - maybe it's one of CBs red lines?
