@Section9 I'm definitely not trying to get on your ignore list. You're probably the most mature in expressing your disappointment. I might disagree with some of your points, but the way your express them is respectful. The teases of IA have been unusual. But they've also teased tactical sense, NCO and Lt L2 which are all exciting rules to have on lots of heavy infantry. Ava 2 chaiyi is also quietly something I'm stoked about We've got hulang, the zuyong character, haidao, daiying. as well as I expect Shang ji to be completely reworked. The fact is the only heavy still unsculpted leaves a lot of potential. I think IA might please you. I hope it does.
Well, TBH ISS is kinda specialized on that. I mean, sensor linked Crane has insane numbers when discovering and we have plenty MSV2 options as well there. We still have Rui Shis here, so that’s something. Getting sensor on something would be nice though...
Shock Immune or lose the hackable trait. I'd be fine with either. The extreme deck isn't harder, it's just more order intensive. The new deck is part of what is souring Infinity for me because the "Extreme" mode is really just another push toward 20+ order lists as the standard. Amen!
1. Cite something, because I cited an IJW wartrader thread marked as solved and haven't seen anything to suggest that explode hits an already dodging model. 2. We have one KHD, and 5 new units we know nothing about. Why guess what's happening until you've seen profiles for Daoying, Mowang, reworked Shang Ji, Taishang, Hulang, Haidao. For all you know there's a new KHD shang ji profile alongside a tinbot B? Would that do what you want? 3. Why are you entitled to what you wishlist? Why can't you wait for the rules to drop and play a few games before judging? At this stage we've seen 2/7 new profiles and no details on the possible links. You're banging your fist and demanding reparations and changes before you've seen what's on the table. Ridiculous.
How the links go together is irrelevant when the two profiles we've been shown can't link. If IA is going to be paying Dasyu points for a skirmisher, I expect it to be at least as good as a mother fucking Dasyu!
Must admit the cause<->correlation hyperbole from 2 troops that undeniably have their shortcomings (and in one case don't deserve being called real HI) is always refreshing. You're gonna run those troops, yes, partially for the lack of other options, but they're far from bad enough to forfeit their area of expertise. For now it's mostly about that "not real HI" thing and the usual "Timmy has a better toy" issues putting a veil over them, but while pricey these troops have tactical application beyond the obvious cookie cutter classification. One is a super Fractaa, not a Tiger. The other is something very weird that is hard to wrap your head around. C+ on 1.5W (hackable) BSG Specialists with Marker State is more than the sum of it's parts. If that's the worst troops we get... take a look at Tunguska or JSA. All the not just mediocre but outright garbage lurking there. Same for SAA, sure that mixed link is sweet, but the bad stuff is still hanging out to dry while the already useful options got all the love. What is better? A Sectorial like MO which for now still is shoehorned into one optimized build that everyone knows about? Or a Sectorial like MRRF, composed out of through and through seemingly mediocre but internally balanced troops, sprinkled with outstanding performers (Chasseurs).
Yeah, you're failing at remaining calm. Let CB write the rules while you focus on remaining polite on the internet. Different sectorials have different play styles. Direct firepower sectorials like NCA tend to have reduced capabilities for infiltration and warbands, but those capabilities can be made up in unexpected ways - auxilia instead of warbands, locusts instead of infiltrating TO camo etc. Wait and see how the jigsaw fits together instead of judging the first piece you see. IA sit somewhere close on the spectrum to NCA in terms of firepower. We have the Hac Tao, which is truly scary and only beaten by the swiss guard in terms of TO gunfighters. We also have the Yan Huo's HRMC, which can reach out with AP rounds and smash anything OSS have in the open. You can't expect every unit to point for point beat every similar unit in the game. The Zhencha has a very respectable load out covering three range bands - SMG 0-16", D.E.P 8-16", Flash Pulse 8-24". It's pretty scary for LI, MI and HI, is excellent at finding hiding spots in midfield and getting down from them when it needs to score. Has a token state. Has mines for intuitive attack and digging into cover. Has two wounds against anything non-shock and has good chances of duelling with most other midfield infiltrators. It has some counters, but they're going to come up less often than you think if you deploy well, pick smart engagements for it and have fire supremacy to control swathes of the table. It can also target things for other units to pick off, with guided shots or longer range fusillades.
I really like this analysis. These are some solid profiles which have some definite downsides, which exactly what I love about infinity. You need to think how to apply units. Not just purchase and place on table = profit.
This is flat out wrong. It can't close to optimal range with the vast majority of skirmishers, because they have MINES!
Zhencha versus Dart looks bad because of her shock options, but isn't that awful depending on who has active turn first. First of all, the zhencha has infiltration, which is strictly better than forward deployment. It can probably take pick of high ground. If it gets to go first it can intuitive attack a mine over Dart, then recamo, peek out and troll Dart to respond. If Dart bites, a face to face shootout using smg AP rounds versus smg or viral bow goes in the Zhencha's favor with surprise attack and the mine might well finish Dart off. If not, the zhencha can follow up with discover -> shoot. If you have the orders to win the fight the zhencha can do it. If Dart gets the active turn first, she obviously has an advantage but it will also depend on the range. If cover forces an 8-16" stand off a D.E.P ARO that beats her smg shots could still end her day fast.
Thanks, I never was a fan of any sort of powercreep, which is why I'm pretty salty about the SAA update, they flat out got better instead of more versatile. It's also the main reason I don't give a shit about Uprising for Vanilla YJ - sure you lost some options, but none of them did crucial stuff and you're not running Zhanshi anyway when you have 8 point REMs, KS or CG BSG FOs to replace the few Keisotsu you had. Internal balance wasn't fucked, we just lost some interchangeable options on the sidelines, nothing essential to perform well in an otherwise well rounded Faction. Some of the JSA troops were useful, but most didn't really work well in Vanilla. What I truly dislike is a shitfest like Vanilla CA or PanO, where half the stuff is so bad you wouldn't touch it with a stick strapped on a pitchfork. Part of that is just the fate of Vanilla armies, so they'll get a pass anyway. In a Sectorial however I can't stand utterly useless bloat that has nothing to contribute. Options that are clearly outclassed by competition with too much overlap and too few diverting branches into utility. MO being a main offender here, but it affects pretty much every single Sectorial to some degree. Even Tohaa have the Taqeul. Deploy Mine ARO vs Zhencha - Zhencha BSG Normal rolls 2 dice on 15s with BSG. Next Order Zhencha Dodges the Mine with a 50% (yes it's 50, not 45 like some people claimed). 50% chance to make ARM roll in case of failure. 25% chance of death, which isn't great, but also something a Dasyus would love to have. The only Skirmisher more resiliant to Mines than the Zhencha would be Dart, being second should be okay. Yes, yes, I know. Zhencha is still a HI and it still feels fucking bad. I'm with you there. But we'll still have to admit, albeit grudgingly that 2nd best is kind of enough.
What's your point. Versus most of them, it'll have higher armor and PH, so is better at tanking the mines. It also has mines of it's own.
I guess I'll put it up... again: http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/42763-dodge-plus-explode/#comment-808599
Though that is in regards to Explode level 1, not level X, there's no guarantee they'll work identically.
Did you miss this? (And he just beat me to posting it for him) Maybe. I prefer my KHDs to have Infiltration, to get them up where the opposing AHDs/repeaters are, but having a KHD in a link team that is marching up the field might work adequately. I will need to play that out, but my initial feeling is that it will be marginal. Fuck no, I'm not entitled to what I wishlisted**. There were expectations of what the units were going to look like, based on the fundamental idea that an 'all HI sectorial' meant every model had 2W. There was a lot of wondering how exactly that was going to work, because 2W is probably the single most expensive stat in the game (plus it apparently increases the cost of a lot of skills). But the expectation we all had going in was that every model would have 2W. More importantly, there is this thing called 'managing customer expectations' that every business major, especially the Marketing types, gets beaten into their head. Had CB said, 'hey, these units might not be typical YJ HI,' expectations managed. That didn't happen. CB is not good about this, and they really need to get better. ** I will, however, note that the PanO changes are pretty damn close to what I was wishlisting for the November Changes, and I had been telling people, no, that's just me wishlisting for major changes, I'm not expecting anywhere near that.
Those are odds i would probably take in vanilla because you can have guilangs, ninjas or a daofeï pick-up after him, but this is not an option in IA since as far as we know the zhencha will be the only skirmisher of the sectorial, and with the associated price tag i don't expect most list to field more than 2 of those guys. 25% odds of losing what is (most likely) your only skirmisher is too much of a gamble IMO.
My point is that the Zhencha is not good at engaging other skirmishers. It has to stay more than 9.25" away to avoid being in range of mines they place in ARO (50% to dodge and 45% to tank the hit are not good odds). So it's hitting on 6's or 3's, depending on which flavor of camo infiltrator. Or you use the D.E.P. and waste its one use on a speed bump, and lower your odds of winning the FtF in the first place. If CB would just not call it a HI I probably wouldn't mind anymore. It has all the weakness of HI, and none of the benefits. But they want it to be HI so they can say they made IA a HI force.
Someone at CB needs to go to business school. It is becoming more and more apparent they don't know how to handle becoming a company of the size they are now.
This is one of the things that infuriates me: somehow it's ok to get super excited and think something is amazing without putting it on the table, but to be cautious and not excited is somehow not ok... That's double standards, and one of the main reason the forum is pretty toxic at times - usually when people start going, "Hey, wait and see" or some more aggressive/dismissive form of that. Maybe, instead of policing, or attempting to police, someone's feelings, maybe say why you think it'll be a good fit? Maybe explain what has you excitedi, instead of telling people they shouldn't be upset or negative (that's not specifically directed at you, YueFei, but also includes you...)
