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Invincible Army concerns

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Mahtamori, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Not all outrage you don't share is fake, and not all outrage you perceive is outrage.
    You're peddling US right-wing rhetorics that's designed to discredit the person rather than address any of the points they make and it's frankly unseemly. Please don't casually ad hominem like that.
     
  2. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    It shits me the yan huo doesn't even have courage.
     
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  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    That's just amazing. It's the most casually thrown mixture of slander and "muh racism"-card I've ever seen. Furthermore, you're forgetting Hitchens's razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    As for your points, lets go through them, shall we? (and please do excuse me for "cutting" up your citation)

    1:"Unless the MHMG is unique in their MULTI price, and costs roughly the same as Full Auto L2, it both casts the Yan Huo price into doubt as well as making calling the Kriza's stats basic a bit of a laugh."
    Nothing to address here, as that's a non sequitor and prior to this, you just summarized the differences between the Kriza HMG and Yan Huo MHMG (and I'm in doubt, are implying that it's somehow odd that the MHMG is more expensive than the HMG?)

    2: "Even making a LOT of assumptions regarding the Kriza's gear being cheaper than I know it is (such as not paying for the CCW at all), it's almost like the Yan Huo is paying for Full Auto L2 without getting the skill."
    'Maybe'. 'Perhaps'. 'Almost'. 'May'. These are weaselwords, they don't mean anything nor does it make a point for you so I can fully dismiss your claim of them not paying for Full Auto, because it 'almost' like you don't have anything concrete to base this on.

    3: "By the way, does BS 13->14 cost more or less than the 5 points I assumed?"
    Litterally the only thing I addressed to the best of my knowledge, while the 2 other points could merely be disregarded.

    So, please dial down your emotional responses and consider why you feel like your points weren't addressed or if they had any merit, rather than retort to calling me a "right winger", which in of itself is a ludicrous claim, as what you're describing is the fallacy called 'Poisoning the Well' and if you honestly believe that's a strategy exclusively used by people on the right and not on the left, then that says a lot about you I'm afraid. :/
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Dial down your fake outrage and find a better hill to have your funeral on.

    I'm not calling you a right-winger, I'm calling the tactic typical of the US right-wing. I'm not asking for you to address my points, I'm asking for you to not insult me.
     
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  5. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I was giving you advice on dialing down on emotional responses, looks like you chose to double down instead. Have a good day mate. :)
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So you do consider it an insult when it's thrown in your own face. Interesting.

    Yes, I will have a good day. The same to you. This is ended.
     
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  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No, I actually like the Yan Huo, it's kinda niche but it's playable with certain weird comps you can pull out. I even use the non tinbot Twin Missile launcher one. That said I think they could definitely do with some adjustments but I rate them above the Guijia in terms of playability.

    Maybe you're thinking of the Shang Ji, I've called them garbage in the past. Because, you know... they're garbage.
     
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  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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  9. Someone

    Someone Active Member

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    Love the model but I haven’t had much luck with the mag cannon version. May need to try out the missile version wit neurokinetics, very least it’s a good excuse to paint up another.
     
  10. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    I know he has made a lot of questionable statements, and I have a very low opinion of him, but I doubt even PsycothicStorm will contest the Shang Ji being garbage.

    He might surprise us tho.
     
  11. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    I would vastly appreciate if you stopped the personal attacks, seriously, stop!

    @Aldo
    Not sure what you mean by me defending it, it is an ok HI in a faction with above ok HI, maybe it is a future component like the Grenzel, were nobody wanted them at the start of N3 and now that Tunguska is out everybody wants them, they definitely lost the wow factor they had when they were introduced in N2.
     
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  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Why would you page a mod for a conversation that clearly ended ages ago? With no insults being made...

    *rolls eyes*
     
  13. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    If you two ended the dialectical spar amicably I must say I am overjoyed, unfortunately it is not evident from the conversation and the current online discussion field is quite volatile, I must approach such discussions with caution.
     
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  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen, please. [/polite voice]

    Yan Huo's 4-2 move is a discount. Not that you notice it if all you do is run and gun, but it can come into play if you're trying to redeploy in a hurry.

    I would expect the HMG->MHMG to be more expensive than Combi ->Multi rifles. Better Antimaterial mode, and better B for Shock/AP ammo. Worth a point or two at least, but there's no easy reference to reverse-engineer.

    BS increases scale up, it's more expensive to go from BS13->14 than BS12->13. And that's without considering weapons Burst.


    I've had much better luck with the HRMC than the missiles. B5 wins an obscene number of firefights, and you even outrange HMGs.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think he's just making a meta-joke where the real point of the post is the misdirection. We expect him to make a comment about moderation, but builds it up to be about the Yan Huo. :)
    Same here with the HRMC.

    Thing is, I'm not seeing the discount. The amount of profiles where a proper deconstruction of the cost of a Multi HMG is fairly low. The only thing I can think of, really, is the old 81 point O-Yoroi (the one before Martial Arts) which caps the cost at roughly 12 points for both ARM and Multi. Az'rail comparison also caps the cost at roughly the same level for both BS and Multi.

    So yeah. What I'm saying is that I've had some good games with the HRMC and the unit concept is fine, if basic, but I can't get the points to add up when comparing it to the newer S5 HI stuff (but it adds up when comparing to older S5 HI).

    Fun fact; from everything I can deduce, a Multi Marksmans Rifle should be 2 points cheaper than a Red Fury, or when comparing them at least not more expensive. /patsDaiyokaiOnUpsideDownParabolaDish

    --

    Changing gear. Raicho has been updated. It's now same cost as Guijia, same gear (except for the AP CCW), same stats, but has Morat which is arguably a lot better and objectively more expensive than the Guijia's CCW. Also noting that when the O-Yoroi had a slight redesign, it, too, gained slightly more than the price went up. One could also argue that the Raicho pilot is a lot better than the Guijia's, but that's true for all pilots and they don't exactly factor into the unit price to begin with.
    What piece of really bloody cheap upgrade would set the Guijia apart and make it slightly more compelling to play?
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Give me a Heavy Grenade Launcher and I'll take my budget Squalo.

    Alternatively if they wanna redesign it into a kungfu TAG I'll take that too. Give it a smoke grenade launcher,CC21-22+MA3, and an explosive (I'll settle for DA) CCW for the same cost and I'd play that.
     
  17. Someone

    Someone Active Member

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    Never manage to get much work done with the Yan Huo HRMC. I think it’s mostly wrong targets for him, played against lots of Steel Phalanx recently so lots of smoke and ODD problems. I had the missile launcher version at one point, gave him away to a potential new player, and he didn’t do much but I don’t recall ever trying the NK version. Doesn’t seem amazing on paper but why not try it out.
     
  18. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize how much I wanted this. The model already looks the part.

    I'd also like it to be good just to run one alongside a Hac Tao. They look like brothers.
     
  19. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    With all this T2 cropping up in TAK I wonder if IA might see the first real 3 wound heavy infantry? Like that supposed s5 we we are getting could be 3 wounds heavy gunfighter no specialist, would be expensive as fuck but it would cement yu jing as HI masters.
     
  20. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    HI masters? You mean the Nomads? We are the CC faction. Oh, wait, not anymore...

    Seriously, I'm just making myself comfortable with the idea that the IA is gonna suck balls, because HI are less and less useful in this game with each release, and they weren't very useful to start with.
     
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