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Intuitive LoF question

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Azuset, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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  2. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    You guys are great!

    I pretty sure I got it now.

    @solkan your last example was very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to teach me this part of the game.
     
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  3. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Stealth and Impersonation cover a bunch of stuff together, and I think Inane.Imp’s Step 8 is slightly wrong. If you do a Move followed by a Stealth-breaking skill, that doesn’t generate a retroactive ARO on the movement path, it generates an ARO on the Stealth-breaking skill.
    There’s no delay option complication from Imp because you straight out cancelled Imp. But that shouldn’t override Stealth saying no reaction to the movement skill. So what nearby models can react to is the Stealth-breaking skill, the CC Attack (or actually Surpise Attack with whatever other CC skills you’ve got.)

    Note: This is all still premised that no one can get LoF to the IMP model except the victim when you make base contact.

    At Inane.Imp’s 8 and 9 steps, there’s the alternate sequence if you attack with the Silent weapon and “win”:
    8. The Hsein dies or goes unconscious (I don’t want to look up the profile to see whether Shock kills it). Yay! This is where Silent kicks in and says “No one gets to declare Change Facing or Warning! in response to this attack.”
    9. The end.

    Disclaimer: I haven’t looked up these profiles, so I might be overlooking some weird skill that these weird human models have. It’s enough just trying to get Stealth, Imp, and Silent sorted out. I swear to the El I’m going to have a white paper on Silent on hand if this ever happens during a game. :-/
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Stealth is broken for the entire activation. Same as the marker state is broken for the entire activation. You're not retroactively declaring an ARO you're declaring an ARO at the first opportunity you had.

    Hsiens have 2Ws. They don't die to a Knife in the back.

    And even if the Hsien had previously lost a wound then it's:
    9. Al Djabel declares whether he's remaining Engaged with the now Unconcious Hsien or whether he's breaking the Engaged state.
     
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  5. JoKeR

    JoKeR HAWZA Instructor
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    And Djabel have MA L4 so still have a chance to kill him silently.
    [​IMG]
     
    #25 JoKeR, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    53% to wound, 12% to incapacitate silently, 9% to get incapacitated.
    Next order you'll use Viral CCW and MA3 for chances which are 51% to wound, 14% to wound twice and 16% to get incapacitated

    Of note; when attacking from Surprise Attack, MA4 is the preferred level to use since the risk of being wounded by a Hsien at MOD -9 is relatively low. On the followup in the case of nearly 70% risk that the Hsien is still alive, the Hsien's chance to take Al-Djabel rises considerably making MA3 the preferred level since all MA4 does at that point is increase chance of second wound (scoring 1 wound is roughly unchanged) at the expense of increasing risk to the Fiday from 16% to nearly 21%.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I did specify MA3 though
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    By using a Knife (Silent+shock), the target can only ARO melee attack (RAW) and Al Djabel won't generate any ARO from enemies who can't see him, even if he's inside their Zone of Control, if he manages to kill his target.

    Change the Hsien for a KuangShi, for example, and you can see that the knife prevents the Kuangshi to Alert! anyone, so Al-Djabel might be able to keep advancing and killing enemies even while inside their Zone of Control as long as they won't have LoF to him.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I don't get how you're getting that?

    "Equipment to make an Attack while outside the target's LoF, that target cannot react by Changing Facing or apply the Warning! rule unless he survives the Attack (that is, isn't in a Null state after the Attack is resolved).

    Additionally, enemies without LoF in whose Zone of Control the Attack took place or was declared cannot declare AROs or apply the Warning! rule unless the target survives the Attack. This means that these enemies must delay their ARO declaration until after the Attack is resolved."

    The Hsien/Kuang Shi has LOF to Al Djabel. So none of the effects of Silent apply.
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I'm pretty sure you're both saying the same thing, that other troopers won't get AROs if the target goes down.
     
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  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we are. I'm saying Alert! is a valid ARO. And I see no reason why the other troopers can't declare Change Facing in response to the Alert!

    "Additionally, enemies without LoF in whose Zone of Control the Attack took place or was declared cannot declare AROs or apply the Warning! rule unless the target survives the Attack. This means that these enemies must delay their ARO declaration until after the Attack is resolved."

    This doesn't apply to troopers Change Facing due to Alert. First, because they're not necessarily troopers in whose ZoC the Attack took place and second because it's not an ARO rather it is an action in response to an ARO and also expends their ARO.

    The alternative is more messy: troopers outside ZoC of the Attacker can respond to the Alert but troopers inside ZoC of the Attacker cannot.
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    OK, then you're definitely not saying the same thing.

    Alert can't be declared for exactly the same reasons BS Attack can't be declared - it requires LoF, and the target only has LoF while in Engaged state.
     
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  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This is what happens when you discuss rules after drinking. Completely forgot that Alert required LOF. You're absolutely correct :)
     
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