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Initial list ideas to test

Discussion in 'StarCo' started by ZlaKhon, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    And they hurt elite lists (e.g.. pain trains or one CG lists) the most since every lost order is a greater future deficit than with low profile lists comprising a bunch of orders and propably a specialist redundancy.
    The only effective way I came up with to hinder an Impersonator is camo blocking. Which works in theory really well with the Hardcase due to his ambush camouflage - as long as said impersonator can't move in every direction.
     
    #61 Tristan228, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Jassal2.0 likes this.
  2. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    How poorly is a 30 point 1 SWC guy supposed to do? Are we used to not taking casualties on turn 1?
     
  3. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Not quite sure what your point is. It is a part of evaluating the pros and cons of a faction to see how well they do against first turn assassination runs.
    My usual Corregidor lists are variations of this:

    What would an impersonator attack here?
    If deployed properly, the Alguaciles core is a bad choice as their link bonuses give them more than a fair chance at winning a shootout. This may require positioning one or two Jaguars around them to make sure smoke + CC isn't an option for the impersonator, but we have enough Jags for this.
    Attacking intruders is silly thanks to the marker state.
    Attacking McMurder is suicidal.
    Attacking Jaguars isn't worth it.
    Attacking the Morans is suicidal thanks to Koalas and probably a bad trade.
    Attacking the one Alguaciles not in the link hoping it is the LT is quite a gamble.

    So the smartest move is probably to simply deploy the impersonator in my half of the table, but keep a low profile and wait for a good moment to strike later in game. There is a good chance that I'll need to waste a lot of orders getting rid of him or I need to get McMurder to do it instead of running towards the enemy links asap, which can also be a lost opportunity.
    In other words: yeah, I am relatively used to not taking casualties in the first turn due to impersonators etc.

    With Vanilla Ariadna the situation looks quite similar in that most of my interesting stuff is in Camo state and there are plenty of cheap dudes with templates around.
    With Aleph it really depends on my list and the big pieces in it. A Marut going against a Speculo will require the entire deployment being focused on keeping the Marut alive. In less top heavy Aleph lists the situation may be more of a "which pieces do I really want to protect and how can I at least make it hard for him to take stuff out".

    So if I had to describe how vulnerable StarCo is against such attacks:
    We don't really have much Camo and we don't have our big guns protected by marker state.
    Only one choice of LT has more than 1 Wound, but we have access to decoy LTs and CoC.
    We potentially have the tools (Jaguars, Lunokhods) to protect our links, but in practice I think it is difficult to keep a harris and a core link save at the same time.
    Many StarCo builds revolve around HI and we don't have interesting CC options on them, smoke + CC can be quite dangerous.
    Lastly, we don't field very expensive pieces, so we are unlikely to loose the game due to one key model being taken out.

    So in conclusion I'd say that StarCo is pretty much an average faction. Impersonators can hurt you, but they won't put you into auto-loose unless you mess up deployment or build lists with too little protection.
     
    #63 ZlaKhon, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
    Jassal2.0 and loricus like this.
  4. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Going by your analysis, it seems to make a lot of sense that Massacre is in StarCo, since he will protect your Lt. Expensive pieces from Impersonators and Emily's CoC makes it pretty much pointless to go for a Lt. hunt too.
    Also on top of that there aren't any super expensive units in StarCo, even the Tags are on the very low end, so Impersonation just isn't that much of a thread anyways.
     
  5. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    My next try, since I'm still lacking the Alguaciles my lists will be built around Riot Grrls (should I open a Riot Grrl centered thread here too?):

    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL MULTI Rifle, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] VERTIGO ZOND Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    ZlaKhon likes this.
  6. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Why would you take a Vertigo without a Hacker that can run Supportware?
     
  7. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    Good point, I didn't even think about REM buffing (I seldom use it actually). And in this list I don't see any troops worth swapping out for a normal hacker...
     
  8. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    The SWC cost is the main issue in your list. A SML with a B2 ARO is a powerful piece, and BS 12 with no negative range bands ignoring cover is also quite good.
     
  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Less love for the MSV2 Sniper than I expected, interesting.
     
  10. Jassal2.0

    Jassal2.0 Member

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    Awesome break down!

    I think players running the special MB+Dak+Massacre link will ALWAYS keep Massacre as the leader in the reactive turn, as his smoke, immunity to hacking, and NBW against CC make him the biggest pain to remove.

    I also think that StarCo is much more welcoming of EVOs than most lists. TeamPro or Overclock are both insanely useful in the reactive, and the buff to AD is nice too. Also, the EVO can run all of the gadget programs! I think Jags are insanely good, but a B2 Transductor is pretty great too.

    The lack of mines hurts, but can be compensated for with smart deployment.


    Also! Every smart player will go out of his way to down Emily if given the chance. She is just way too much of a force multiplier to be left alive
     
  11. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    After this evening's two games I think adding the Alguacil Hacker could indeed be useful since the remote didn't survive long. Ok, it's an inevitable fate against linked ML Tankos.

    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] VERTIGO ZOND Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    In comparision to the HRL you pay basically one regular order for such shenanigans. Also for me it's the first time I can play an HRL that cheap!
     
    wellspokenman likes this.
  12. Jassal2.0

    Jassal2.0 Member

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    This is what I lean toward:

    [​IMG] Alg ML──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)[​IMG] ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)[​IMG] ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)[​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)[​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)[​IMG] UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)[​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)[​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)[​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)[​IMG] SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1[​IMG] BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)[​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)[​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)[​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)[​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)[​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    The Hawwa can't provide supportware, but she's also safe from KHDs and more potent against HI/TAGs. The list can also be rearranged with an HMG replacing the ML, Uhahu replacing Hawwa, and Spector Regular rounding out the Harris instead of the Brawler LT new LT is an Alg
     
  13. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    With a new non ITS tournament upcoming I want to try a new list. And since I got some Alguaciles pretty cheap this time I'll ülay them together with Emily (contrary to @ZlaKhon I have no qualms about frustrating my opponent with the extensive use of speculative E/M grenades). Aldo my trusty Trailblazers were chosen.

    [​IMG] Emily & the Algus
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
    [​IMG] UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] BANDIT Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    So far I still see no real point in taking any S4 remotes in my lists...
     
    ZlaKhon likes this.
  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    As in the Zonds? Reaktion and Stempler are as good as they have ever been IMO, nothing wrong with Sensor at all.
     
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  15. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Yeah, I agree with @Solar when looking at it from a pure game perspective.
    E.g. swapping the CSU for a FO Rem would be cool (points could be saved by maling the Bandit a KHD). Thst would give you sensor, a fast specialist and you can use uhahu to give it MMSlvl2 if necessary.
    From a fluff perspective I‘d prefer to keep the CSU.
     
  16. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    So far the Stempler Zond is the only S3 remote I seldom use (actually only in two games so far) in my lists. Mainly because I play Bakunin and there is the FO Zero who is a better alternative. Of the S4 remotes only the EVO Salyut is interesting to me.
    Despite the Sensor's general be usefulness it loses some of it's necessity in Fireteam based lists since the Surprise Shot / Attack poses no real threat for them. Thus there is not necessarily a need in actively uncovering camo markers (further, finding HD troopers is like pot hitting).
    The CSU Spec Op also has some advantages over the lone Stempler: SSL1, linkable, Breaker ammo, Nanopulser, not hackable. Whilst bringing only two disadvantages: 75% chance of being not shock immune, 5% lower chance of success at mission objectives.
     
  17. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    The Sensor Rem does shine in other Sectorials quite a bit, for Druze it's pretty great f.e. Nomads do have party access to Pi-Well, which is just a boosted Stempler.

    In StarCo it's still useful, but there is so much other stuff so it gets skipped easily.
     
  18. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Tsyklon is awesome in both Spitfire and Feuerbach form. Climbing Plus gives it great mobility. Marksman makes it one of the best options Nomads have for shooting at targets in cover (effectively BS 15). Pitchers are a flat 12 from 16-24 because of the X-visor and the Spitfire is flat from 24-32, which is quite useful. It can lock down an area on SF because it can't be flanked and it's on full BS all the way to 24. Enhanced Reaction makes the Feuerbach frightening, as it's now shooting 2 EXP rounds and it has no negative rangebands in a 360 degree radius. With an HD+ both versions can take out MSV models with ease. All this with ARM 3, BTS 6 to boot.

    Lunokhods are good too, but are a lot more niche. If you see a lot of Netrods, Koalas, or Madtraps the Minesweeper is golden, and while you can get one on the Salyut for 8 points, having one with Climbing Plus, 6-4 Movement, and the ability to defend itself is quite useful.
     
    #78 wellspokenman, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  19. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Doing StarCo for my local slowgrow/escalation league. Starting at 150pts, then 200pts, then 300pts, with the intent being to use models in all three brackets as much as possible.

    [​IMG] SlowGrow 150
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)

    2 SWC | 150 Points


    [​IMG] SlowGrow 200
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    2.5 SWC | 199 Points


    [​IMG] SlowGrow 300
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BANDIT (Forward Observer) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] BANDIT (Forward Observer) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)

    5 SWC | 300 Points



     
    #79 Leviathan, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
    loricus likes this.
  20. Zakalwe

    Zakalwe Bomber Harris, Do It Again!

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    How great is your attachment to this profile? The Akrylat-Kanone version is a point cheaper but will allow them to smack things from a larger range band in a pinch, especially useful if you're having to do Hunting Party or something, and will give you a slightly larger toolbox if you come across a Jotum or something insane that you can't really deal with otherwise.


    You could probably replace this with a CSU in the Haris- you're taking one anyway in most of those lists. You can even maintain the same models, by throwing in the Assault Hacker/SMG profile to run solo, which costs exactly the same points and SWC- throwing him in suppression is not remotely the worst thing to do.