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Infinity and 40k

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by LankyOgreBP, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I still chuckle at Ghazgull "Mag Uruk" Thraka destroyer of communities and privatiser of railways.
     
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  2. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    In a word because the setting is rad, in more words:

    For me and my friends its largely because its this grandiose, ridiculous, overwrought, yet at times utterly terrifying setting where all the most impractical Sci-fi (and some fantasy) tropes live in one murderously dysfunctional place. we're under no illusions that its quite largely unoriginal, and they've got some authors who aren't great, but when you read a story by a good author (Nick Kyme, Sandy Mitchell, and Dan Abnett are my favorites) and you can get some pretty rousing stuff. and i find it interesting to see when authors pays more than a modicum of attention to just how completely out of touch most space marines are with the rest of humanity and how they struggle to interact with those they're supposed to defend.

    If anyone hasn't seen it yet I'd suggest watching the Helsreach videos that a fan made (and has since been hired by GW to produce similar things for them) based off a novel of the same name, or just watch from 48:50 onwards for perhaps the best speech ever given by a space marine Chaplin as it is just the right amount of overdone for 40K .
     
  3. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Muahahaha. Now I will see them with a walking stick and eating shoes.
     
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  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very much this, the games scratch different itches.

    Infinity is not for everyone. One guy in my gaming group likes to turtle and dig in (in just about every game system!), and that just doesn't work in Infinity, you gotta move to get shots and objectives. Another guy struggles with how complex the choices are, and has a hard time compartmentalizing rules (anything between models along LOF gives cover in Kill Team, while you gotta be B2B in Infinity, for example).

    I've actually slowly been making a mashup of 8E Deathwatch Primaris (for the mixed squad rules and models) Rogue Trader army organization, and RT-Badab War camo. Back then, you had to take an Army Commander, a LT, 0-3 Chaplains, 1-6 Librarians, 0-6d6 Techmarines (one required per vehicle and per gun), and 1-4 Medics/Apothecaries. I have 3 mixed Primaris squads; one plasma squad; one Riever squad; used named chapter LTs as LT, Chaplain/Sergeant-Major, and Librarian; two Primaris Apothecaries; and have bits to turn at least one bolter-Primaris into a Techmarine, two more into Comms specialists (LT), and two more into Medics.

    And I'm working on painting them all in the Marines Errant splinter camo (WW2 Luftwaffe splinter), but that's an epic pain in the ass. Prime red-brown, then paint thin zigzag lines in a gray-brown. the trick is to have each line have a different number of zigzags than the lines next to it. Fill in between adjacent zigzags so that the red-brown covers ~2/3rds of each panel. Then paint in geometric shapes of VMC reflective green on the red-brown parts, to cover about half the red-brown. Finally, use a green micron pen to draw vertical lines over about half the red-brown and gray-brown. Again, you're doing that on each panel. Or, I will be, once my arm heals in 12 weeks. Right now, they're just primed red-brown.



    Yes, a lot of the earlier books are terrible. The Horus Heresy novels are much better, particularly when contrasting to the usual tone of the 40k Imperium. Ben Counter's Grey Knights novels are also good (and predate the atrocious Matt Ward 'dex fluff).
     
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  5. Darkvortex87

    Darkvortex87 Combat jump kamikaze

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    Meh, whatever scratch your itch I guess...

    Imho, and I'm not saying this as an infinity player but as a hard-core sci-fi lover, 40k lore is an incredible mess of illogical solutions and illogical situations.
    You have an empire that spans billions of planets, with trillions of citizen, you can destroy a planet and/or glass his surface and still you are fighting losing battle on the ground?
    Air support does not exist, you have a giant ship on low orbit and you can't do anything on the ground.
    Yet at the same time, chaos citizen seem to fair better than empire ones.
    Also, somehow, you look at a xeno and you risk being heretic, but then, there are people talking with the machine spirit, or vampires, or flying supernatural angels and that's ok.

    I mean, those are the kinds of thing that break suspension of disbelief. The lore is so full of those that I can't really take it as a story that is actually trying to be well written.
    It seems like an horny goth teen without a girlfriend and an hard-on for body modification wrote it in his spare time.

    And I love doctor who, where you find a flying shark pulling santa's sled in a snowstorm, and it all make sense!
     
  6. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    I love the "Siege of Vraks" story (Imperial Armnour 5-7 I think), when Death Korps fought against Vraksian renegades. The story is nice, because its literally WW1 INn SPhEEHZ!!1 Then I started painting a small renegades army with many conversions. The converting and kitbashing is a part of the hobby you cant do that good in Infinity (and thats totally fine, because the models itself are AWESOME!) and I like the different style of 40k.

    But the fluff at all, if you look at the whole lore, is just.. not so good. Ghazghkull is rallying the greates waagh ever since 4th edition, but because its 40k, just nothing happens.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I liked the lore when I was a kid but now I try to read it and it's like reading something written by a kid. At least other than Dan Abbnett.

    I didn’t want to leave 40k but it kind of left me by making the price so high I couldn’t play. Then they made most of what I had no longer legal. Cultists in Alpha Legion (which later came back?) and Noise Marine Bikers and other stuff. I unfortunately can’t afford to let things sit and gather dust. So I sold them and got into Infinity hard! One I saw they had Shaolin with guns I was sold. It was also right when it came out in the US.

    Kill team is interesting but a bit too simple for me. I also don't like how you can't mix and match troops. No I don't want just Guardians and Dire Avengers. I also want a banshee, scorpion and warp spider!
     
  8. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    GW's actually moving some of the old plot points along, aside from destruction of Cadia, Ghazgkull is finally on the march, knocking out an entire watch-fortress of the Deathwatch in the process. the Kryptman Gambit has ended in the worst possible way, with the Orks and Tyranids breaking off their endless war and striking out into the galaxy. probably a couple others i'm forgetting. unfortunately instead of doing anything interesting with those they're focusing on the Armageddon 2.0, I mean Vigilus for the time being. but they actually seem to be trying to make the setting evolve somewhat so i'll give them some credit for that.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I like that after 10,000 years in a top secret research facility Belisarius Cawl has finally been able to improve on the Emperor's original designs and make Space Marines that are slightly taller.
     
  10. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    Don't forget naming every gun he's improved after himself, that at least took him a decade.
     
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  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Still not as bad as ruddy Arkhan Land and his Land Speeder, Land Raider, Land Crawler, Land Coat, Land Fork, and Land Device For Picking Things Up That Are Just Out Of Reach But Not Far Enough Away To Be Worth Getting Out Your Chair For.
     
  12. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    The best things in the 40k universe are so small fluff gems nobody really knows about. Like the Death Spectres and their Throne of Glass. But everything GW does now is Ultramarines here, Ultramarines there.
     
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  13. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    Again, they're getting better, Kirby and Ward are gone so they seem to be toning it down some but with Guilliman back Ultramarines front and center is not going away any time soon. at least until the bring back another primarch (please be Corax or Vulcan) but the fans are definitely not going to let them live that down for awhile, possibly ever knowing the internet.
     
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  14. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    Let us not forget his Land Camera ...

    No, seriously. The Land character is based upon Edwin Land, who developed a camera (the Land Camera) that would later be known as a "polaroid" camera.
     
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  15. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    I dont think that theyre getting better. The 8th Ed. fluff is just awfully designed. The way they tryed to find a explanation for Primaris in the lore is just so so bad. Nobody has ever heard about Cawl in the Heresy and suddenly he is the pimpmagos fabricator general?! Seriously? Nothing in 40 makes any sense and thats a good thing sometimes, because I like the universe as it is, but that is just ridiculous.

    Comparing the realistic (and did I mention AWESOME?) Siege of Vraks to the Fall of Cadia tells me again that the way, the fluff expands, is just not the way I like 40k. Dropping Ultramarine Suzerain Squads (straight outta heresy/calth) from Necron Pokeballs is just the icing on the cake. The good thing and strength of 40k is that you can build your own part of the 40k universe and just ignore the things you dont like.
     
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  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember a time when that wasn't the case. Now i'm sure it's worse due to them having a Primarch. But even so, i hated that the story was pretty much about marines and nothing else. Why I loved Gaunts Ghosts. Something NOT with them. I also loved the Eldar. The few stories they had with them were meh. But I haven't seen anything for a while.
     
  17. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    I've enjoyed the couple of Ork stories I've read and the Crimson Fists stuff. There's just something about the over the top ridiculousness that is a fun palate cleanser.

    As was said, the space Marine models are kind of a nice break as well with the big panels.
     
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  18. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Deff Skwadron is the single best piece of 40k fiction and I will fight anyone that says otherwise!
     
  19. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    I was simply talking about the current attempts by GW to not be all Ultramarines all the time, this edition they've had two (of four current plus one on the way) starter sets that didn't have Smurfs on the box, one didn't even have Astartes! comparatively speaking this is progress.
    As to the rest, Vraks is indeed the better story but i don't find the Fall of Cadia and the rest of it as galling as some, and found Trazyn using some of his precious collection to be rather humorous. But to me the important thing is (and this breaks a Guardsmens heart) Cadia fell and the plot advances, the endless cycle of Black Crusades dashing against its walls is over and new battlegrounds are found and i personally look forward to seeing where they're going with this.
     
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  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that's why I'm explicitly going back to the RT books for organization and stuff. Badab War is quite interesting.



    The planet Cadia broke before the Cadian Guard did.