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In which I thank Bostria for his honesty

Discussion in 'News' started by Vanderbane, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Well, honestly I would've been happier if that was the truth... such a big release so soon after the trilogy with a bunch of new armies really seems excessive.
     
  2. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    IMO definitely YES.

    As a tohaa player a had a little hope left, that the second faction in the box would be rerelease of them. Should be the year of the tohaa!
    Through this lie, O-12 was out of the equation for me and I didn't expected them.
     
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  3. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    But as it is fact a tabletop wargame and therefore not that important in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's really anything worth getting worked up about.

    Let's say Bostria lied straight to our faces. Who cares? It's a faction release for a wargame. It's not a big deal.
     
  4. FireFangs

    FireFangs Space Oni

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    And why complain about getting more new stuff ahead of time anyway? It strikes me as a good thing to have even more choices.
     
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  5. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    New Stuff would be ok, if CB hadn't the problem with SKU and all factions all of their units released had.
     
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  6. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    I always find this attitude odd. Where's the line for someone "getting worked up about" something? Is it because they post about it? Because it takes me virtually no time to type out a post about something that's been thought about. I don't post from a phone or tablet so keyboard means quick!
    By the same vein, what's the point of lying to fans/customers?

    I don't believe that a lot of this is lying, mind you, but rather just saying something for the sake of saying something. For whatever reason CB's reps seem to avoid just saying "I don't know" or "I can't talk about that" at events.
     
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  7. FireFangs

    FireFangs Space Oni

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    It's basically serving as starting discussions. Wha's O-12 gonna be like? What will their scult be? Will they get a TAG? And so on. The release date isn't really that important as all that was really said was "next year", which is barely even a tentative date, much less a hard date. And those dates change all the time. Usually it's pushed back, but sometimes, like now, it's brought earlier.
     
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  8. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    A lot of us seem to care, because fuck a sales rep of any company that lies to our faces. We're the customers here, if they can't be either respectful or competent enough to communicate clearly and truthfully, then something is really wrong.

    The old GW lied to the customer base all the time. They almost tanked the corporation. The lying and lack of ANY clarity of the release schedule led to the customers ceasing to buy and the company killing off the whole Warhammer Fantasy Battle line.

    Sure, nobody cares.
     
  9. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    Lets do a digital dive and look at E3 for videogames. Much hype, shiney graphical presentations and trailers. Trying to get you to Pre-order with some extra loot.

    And we all know with release their is already a bug fix day 1 and features who were promised, but are not there (yet). We all know plenty of games that are actually worth playing 6 months after release when they have worked out all the kinks. And by then the game is cheaper anyway.

    With that in mind, give me the CB approach. You get it when its done. I do not see it as a lie, they keep a secret. Cause they want to be able to keep a promise.

    And from their work process it is understandable. Design is their bottleneck. They need some time to think up a thing and make it work. once they have unit ready for production they can churn them out ad infinitum. Best to say: "we got something cool" when they reach that point. They hype us when they have renders and drawings. Which is a fair bussiness tactic.

    I am fine with them telling me no at first. They are churning out new models every month. I need to handle my hype in a regular dossage for one.







    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G930F met Tapatalk
     
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  10. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I'm just glad he's not taking the piss out of yu-jing players anymore lol
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Probably.

    I think a better answer may have been, "We are working on them, but they're a long way from release right now."

    Tells the truth but not the whole truth.



    And I bought them a *bleep*ton of good booze and cigars a few GenCons back... Sent my Ninja Shopper there with a $100 for drinks for the CB staff present.
     
  12. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    We all know that our "brand" ambassador can be much more convincing if we don't tell them the truth.
     
  13. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    That may have been a contributing factor, but in my opinion, the major factor was the low quality of releases, coupled with the high prices. Specifically with the rules. I don't really see an equivalence here.
     
    #33 Pen-dragon, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  14. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. The chief point of praise for "nuGW" in the community is consistently the extreme improvement in the areas of customer contact and communication, transparency about releases, dates, preorders, contents, etc.
     
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  15. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    That may be because the area of communication is where GW has changed the most. I can't speak for the greater market, but I left because the prices were too high, and the quality of the rules was terrible (among other lesser concerns). The quality and prices (specifically the rules) has shifted very little last I checked. (Which I do have to admit wasn't in the past few months.)

    To circle it back around to the topic at hand, I am a little confused about the vitriol. All marketing departments lie through their teeth to drum up enthusiasm for their products. That doesn't make it OK, but hardly remarkable. In this case, it was a company saying 'we are not going to give you something', and then end up giving you something anyways. That is a lot better then promising to deliver something and then not delivering. And I am sorry, schedules change, I don't expect a company to reliable know what new products are ready for release more than six months out. I doubt it was a lie, but more of a case of information changing. Either way, new faction! Can't wait to see more details!
     
  16. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    We could also remember that much of the discussion here is opinion. Some have mentioned that they (with varying degrees of intensity) dislike the way this was handled. Others are couldn’t care less, and yet others find it kind of funny.
     
    #36 A Mão Esquerda, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  17. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    The point of my OP was that a bunch of us were assuming that CB were liars for saying O-12 wasn’t coming this year, but critically they never said that. It was a false memory, one that I shared. They insinuated it’d be a long time before O-12 to hide it from the community, but they were honest. It was our fault for translating that to “not 2019.” In fact, there’s lots of details in these old videos that were great hints of what was coming in hindsight - I suggest if you’ve not watched them again to do so. They’re consistently hinting at what’s to come in the Q&A and deserve credit for it, but remain cagey enough we miss a lot of the details until they happen. Which, by the by, is a pretty _good_ marketing strategy.

    The issue of “what if they had lied” is a matter of opinion, as others have stated, but I think it’d be an issue for a lot of us. If everything CB says is random or can’t be relied upon, there’s no reason for me to pay attention. It’s really that simple. Lies are a problem, because too many and the market stops listening. It’s fine to be cagey and build hype, but you need to do so in a reliable way.

    Which brings us back to the beginning and why I posted this…
     
  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they don't lie, they just have a big lot of changes each month that make all planification ahead untrustworthy and make mistakes over and over every time they try to explain their schedule, plus his way of talking in wich exaggerates all cool things into something bigger that they actually were

    And doing this since late n1/beggining of n2. Yeah, they could not fix this in all those years... Of course...

    Sorry, but no. I could believe this when they started, but after some years refining their marketing, fixing their schedule, they make not so much errors. Almost all of this is planned, both the "ifs", the correct news, and the "missed ones" (I think it is all, but they are still humans and can make mistakes, but not so much as some people say)
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Both the US and the EU have laws against that, essentially stating that what the marketing gives the public the impression of their products being capable of, the product has to deliver, within what is reasonable to expect (e.g. it is not yet reasonable to expect a skateboard to literally fly, but it is reasonable to expect it to not break from a car driving over it sideways).
    I don't know the specifics of US laws, but for most EU countries the specifics are that if the product does not conform to what has been stated about it, the company must gratis fix it to conform or reimburse the customer (which typically also means reimburse the customer extra expenses they might've had from the purchase)

    So frankly, the whole "marketing always lies" argument should die in a fire along with people's unreasonable expectations that a release schedule will hold. They lie as much as they think their production department can manage to adjust the product and as much as they think they can get away with, but that's not the same as saying we should expect their lies nor that we should not be able to take what they say (behind the fancy words) as being true.
     
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  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Prices are creeping back up again, and some of the rules are ... interesting. I think the new Apocalypse works for the scale of game it's supposed to be, but a bunch of the guys don't like it.



    There is an immense difference between a controlled 'drip' of hype about how cool something is going to be, and outright false information. You can exaggerate about how cool something is a little, it might not blow up in your face.

    You outright lie about something, you're just convincing your customers that it's time to stop listening to you.



    It's a reasonable thing to say "not for a while" without specifying what "a while" means. It's also possible that the O12 style gelled faster than CB expected.


    Exactly!