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In ASA which do you choose?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by yoink101, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    I’m having a bit of a conundrum. As I think about list building, the Regular hacker presents me with some interesting tools. It carries a hacking device which can be used defensively against HI, REM, and TAGs. It has a light grenade launcher which can be a fantastic tool. Now, this kit costs a mere 1SWC, which is an absolute bargain. But, Acontecimento tends to run high in SWC.

    I’d like to bring an ORC with a heavy weapon in my core team, so I have a hitter who won’t be foiled by white noise or albedo.

    With all of that in mind, which of these two would you start with for building an Acon list that could handle a variety of missions and why?

    Option 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44)
    BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    REGULAR Hacker (Hacking Device, FastPanda) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    5 SWC | 129 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Option 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    BAGH-MARI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    5.5 SWC | 130 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Edited for stupid mobile formatting stuff...
     
    #1 yoink101, Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    This is what I'm leaning towards but I wouldn't bother including the hacker. He's pretty flexible but you already have so much SWC dumped into your link team. I would take KHDs on Nagas to unlock remotes, kill enemy hackers, push buttons, and score relevant cards.

    the second team you listed is always going to be slowed down by a 4-2 mov guy along with having redundant pieces.
     
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I'd probably pass on the Fuerbach. I like the notion, but I think the ORC HMG's generally going to serve you better.

    The first reason for this is the role it occupies compared to Bagh Mari. With 4-4 MOV, the ORC can sweep up the table alongside 4-4 Regulars, and the HMG will serve you better for that kind of aggressive maneuvering. It's also really nice to have a 4-4 active turn HMG that doesn't just get jammed up by White Noise any time you try to move a unit. White Noise Spamming can be nasty for Bagh Mari.

    The second reason is that, while a BS17 ORC sure is great, it still likes having all the high Burst it can get, whether that's Burst 5 active turn, or Burst 3 Suppressive Fire.

    As far as the Hacker, I think you and I agree that it's the grenade launcher that's really appealing. That can be a very, very strong tool. I guess it mostly depends if you want to pay 23 points / 1 SWC for it.
     
  4. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    Part of my thinking is that the HMG can be in the fireteam or can operate solo as a flanker. Plus, I rarely move more than a few inches outside of my deployment zone with my core team anyway.

    Where else would you spend the SWC if you dropped the hacker from the first option?
     
  5. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    I think Barakiel hit the nail on the head with the Feuerbach assessment. It's a decent piece but stuck in a link B5 is just going to be better and more well rounded. Besides, you have to assume you're going to lose that MSR if you're going second, forcing you to link that Bagh HMG back in. Another regular would probably serve you well in this case if you want to keep that HMG off to the side and operating by itself so you can retain your 5-man bonus with the ORC.

    You said yourself, ASA is SWC hungry – I generally find myself spending spare SWC on minelayers, one of the Aleph solo pieces - Scylla or Drakios generally, Akalis, or Bulleteers.
     
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  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Another nice element of the HMG is that you can displace the team and maneuver without using a full 5-man team. You may not want your Bagh Mari to have to climb off her perch, or slow the team with 4-2. In a situation like that, leaving the Bagh Mar in your DZ, and being able to run-and-gun with an ORC + 2-3 Regulars is still a perfectly good sweeper team.

    If you do include the LGL, I'd try to include enough bodies that you can run the ORC + 4 Regulars so that you have a full 5-man team that can advance into LGL range. Maneuvering those Bagh Mari gets really cumbersome. One of Acon's great Mixed Link strengths is that 1 ORC can join Regulars without needing any Wildcard, so I'd try to take advantage of that and keep your option of 1 ORC + 4 Regulars available.
     
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  7. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Agreed, this is one big advantage Acon has over Vird and a very powerful one at that – being able to min-max with your link team like this really open up the rest of your list. Admittedly in VIRD I almost never take an ORC because he doesn't have a place in the list without making the link team 40 points more expensive over his Kamau HMG counterpart
     
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  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    the Fuerbach is a bit more of a bully piece, due to the interaction of it B3 (linked) and AP,DA ammo, it wont win as many fights. What it does do however is all but ensure that what you do hit absolutely takes a beating. In terms of primary offensive weaponry I think the HMG is more rleiable because more dice=tighter prob curve=more likely to obtain the expected result. However if you need a little more reactive punch in the list and have a high burst platform elsewhere (say a bulleteer+seirra) then the fuerbach is an option worht considering in my opinioon.

    So Id say given you want a Door Opener, go the HMG, if the rest of your list flexes out such that you are less inclined to reach for the Core to do heavy active lifting, then consider the Fuerbach.
     
  9. Mikes

    Mikes Well-Known Member

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    Thing with the reguler hacker is you take one to have a hacker on the board just to complete the specialist objectives or to buff remotes. They're pretty useless as defensive tech. Eg, enemy assault hacker walks around a corner in los of your reg hacker. If you choose to hack, they shoot, if you shoot, they hack. Either way, the ball is in their court.
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    thats a Face to Face mate.....regardless of choice


    The Reg hacker is solid for its buffability I agree, but its also WIP13 and SS2.
     
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  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    unfortunately he's very easy pickings for almost any KHD wielder. IMO hackers in the PanO core team just offer the opponent an easier way to deny your 5-man bonus
     
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  12. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    thats not my experience when properly screened and supported. An KHD Naga and/or an EVO offers both an offensive and Defensive means of keeping the regular alive. couple that with a proper screen of mines (really id expect 3 minelayers minimum in an ASA army) and standard PanO ARO Oppression and I am skeptical of many Skirmisher KHDs making it into threat range of a linked Regular Hacker. Unless of course the Regular link is advancing, and well, then its up to the player not to advance into a situation like that until the opponents Hackers are nuetralised
     
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  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Fair enough dude – Pieces with pitchers are really common and KHDs are the specialist of choice in my meta. Barid + Leila, Kerr-nau + Bit/Kiss, Tsyklon + Mary Problems + Interventor, ect. are all really popular in my area. Playing PanO I've just kind of learned to avoid any hacker who isn't a marker state or the Santiago.
     
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  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Pitchers are ok but they are very hit and a miss. If its beyond 16 and not the linked odds are the opponent is wasting that order and the pitcher
     
  15. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    There hacker is there for a few reasons:
    • It is an excuse to use Emily’s miniature.
    • A wip 13 specialist in the fireteam to help cover the ORC and draw attackers into leaving themselves open for a Naga KHD with my extensive repeater network (3 fugazis and maybe a mulebot or two)
    • A grenade launcher for a SWC “discount.” A grenade launcher in a core team can be an incredibly useful tool to have. Spec fire on 12 in the midfield in a mission like frontline is no joke.
    My question comes down to, at least for this part, is it worth losing all of that to fit another HMG into the list? Well, that’s a tough answer, because it’s highly situational. It depends on the mission, the opponent, the table, the opponent’s army and list. Anyway, I’m just looking for some input. Thank you for all of the responses so far! I think I’m narrowing down my lists.
     
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  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I know you and I spoke about this already, but just to repeat it here: I think Dart does help the LGL become less critical. Thanks to Dart, an enemy unit hiding atop a building, or dug into dense terrain, is much easier to reach and take down. Dart's combination of Camo state, Stealth, effective 2 Wounds, Unhackable, high quality short-range f2f capability, etc are all very well tailored for hitting the kind of targets where you'd ordinarily want to use a linked LGL.