Firstly, I want to preface this by saying I'm neither a really good player, nor do I actually yet play Tohaa, so I guess you can say these are purely the words of an outside opinion here, so a good salt shaker is perfectly in order here. That being said, here are some vaguely coherent ramblings on the topic. So, I really like snipers in general, I use them a lot, and my first few ever used units had a sniper among them. Now me, being the curious boy that I am, tend to browse around Infinity army, toying around with what more or less each faction has to offer out of curiosity. Recently I decided to look at Tohaa, and more specifically, after talking with the local Tohaa player, I decided to look at Tohaa snipers a bit. Which sort of led me to this idea, you could say: I believe Tohaa has no ''bad'' snipers. I think every single sniper option that Tohaa has is perfectly viable. Not in every single situation ofcourse, there's always gonna be a situation where a Clipsos is more appropriate than a Nikoul, or a Kamael might not always be a better call than a Kaauri, but I think each has a good reason to earn a spot in a list. If I may, I'll take some time here to talk a little bit about each one, in order from cheapest to priciest: Kamael Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 KAMAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16) 0.5 SWC | 16 Points Open in Infinity Army Kamaels, a very humble LI choice, similar to many similar purposed LI that can be found in many other factions, don't have very much going for them beyond a higher than average PH for such a unit, 11, and some interesting profile options, likes a Spitfire instead of the more common HMG and a White Hacking Device for the Hacker profile. But the focus here is on the sniper profile. As lone snipers, Kamaels are... poor, but due to Tohaas signature Triad teams, when added to a defensive Triad, that extra Burst and a good dose of nice positioning can turn the Kamael into a surprisingly nice, for the cost, sniper: it's no superb long range executioner, but a decent defensive piece nonetheless. Kaauri Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 KAAURI Sentinel Sniper / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 19) 0.5 SWC | 19 Points Open in Infinity Army Coming in at 3 points extra over the cost of the Kamael Sniper, we get a Kaauri Sniper. Whatever meager amount of armor the Kamael had is gone, and so is the one extra PH point above the norm as well as the extra burst from a full Triad, but instead we get immunity to Shocks and Virals insta-kills, courtesy of the Kaauris STR stat instead of Wounds. In addition to that, this sniper has a short, but nice, list of small but useful skills and equipment. MSV1 will help out in the event the enemy uses Camouflage units to root your sniper, tipping the odds slightly back in your favor, and makes, in addition to Sixth Sense Lv2, being shot through Smoke quite a bit less painful. Sixth Sense Lv2 is, as always, useful to have on a defensive piece, and to top it all off, there's a Biometric Visor Lv, in the event your problems involve a lot of Holoechos or Impersonators: it's not perfect, but it helps, no? Oh, and an Electric Pulse that might just save your synthetic skin once in a blue moon. All for an affordable 19 points and 0.5 SWC! So whatever the enemy used to dislodge this one, probably cost quite a bit more than your Kaauri. Clipsos Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 CLIPSOS Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 26) 1 SWC | 26 Points There are two things that, IMO, mesh very well with TO Camouflage, or more in relevance to the topic, Hidden Deployment: Missile Launchers, or Impact Template weapons in general, and Sniper Rifles. I am pretty sure the topic on the merits of Hidden Deployment Snipers and MLs has been discussed at least a dozen times over, but I'll still briefly brush across the topic anyways: Hidden Deployment can be very useful for making your opponent willingly walk into an unfavorable situation, such as say... them trying to walk in and eliminate a Neurocinetics Chaksa, only to find a Clipsos Sniper reveal themselves a little bit further back behind the Chaksa. This would be very unfortunate indeed, since the enemy planned on having to kill a single Neurocinetics HMG, not having to deal with it AND a TO Sniper at the same time, which has probably thrown a metal pipe into the wheels of their plan, which can either lead to them expending a lot more orders than they expected to, or end up losing their attacker piece due to having unknowingly bit off way more than they could chew: both outcomes are in favor of the reactive player here. Ofcourse, this ''trap'' only works once a match and requires quite a lot of good positioning to make proper use of, but... when done right, it can really give you a solid edge. That, and TO snipers, due to having TO, Suprise Shot and the Sniper Rifles really long reaching rangebands, can be really effective at removing enemy defensive pieces as well, so for both these reasons I think the Clipsos is a perfectly valid option when out searching for a Sniper. Nikoul Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 NIKOUL Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) NIKOUL Minelayer Viral Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) 3 SWC | 58 Points Open in Infinity Army This unit's purpose is sniper duty... very obviously, since you either get to pick a sniper profile, or a sniper profile. That being said, the one thing the Nikoul does is a thing it does well. MSV1 helps soften the negatives of enemy Camouflage and Smoke+MSV2 shenanigans, as mentioned on the Kaauri, but the other things the Nikoul brings to the table are also useful. Sapper allows the Nikoul a greater range of freedom when deciding on a sniper spot: so long as it can fit an S3 model, the Nikoul will be able to plant itself a Foxhole there, benefitting from V:Courage, Mimetism and being surrounded in cover from all directions, all beneficial for a defensive piece. In addition to that, the Nikoul has a Symbiont: meaning an extra wound for the enemy to get through, and the potential option of SymbioMates. And the Minelayer profile can let you drop a mine during deployment, to cover the Nikouls rear, or add to your DZ defenses. And last but not least, the rifle the Nikoul wields uses Viral ammunition, which does mean it has a greater chance of maybe killing whenever you successfully land a hit with it, which is a nice bonus. A worthwhile sniper overall. No Triads though, so that's a thing to keep in mind. Gao-Rael Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) 1 SWC | 31 Points Open in Infinity Army Back to Triad accepting snipers, we have the Gao-Rael, and MSV2 sniper this time. Being able to join in on a defensive Triad is already a pleasant advantage, and the ability to deprive your enemy of using Smoke to walk past this sniper can force the enemy to have to adopt a ''remove instead of avoid'' approach, which isn't the easiest thing to do either, due to Symbiont Armor and the ever present potential for a SymbioMates presence. But, like the Clipsos, the Gao-Rael is perfectly serviceable on the offensive too, provided you have some Smoke to use with it thanks to a Kerail Preceptor. I'm pretty sure the usefulness of the MSV2+Smoke combo has been explored thoroughly enough already. So the Gao-Rael has good options and reasons to be brought onto the table as well. Sukeul Snipers: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 SUKEUL K1 Sniper / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) 1.5 SWC | 34 Points Open in Infinity Army Lets starts with the small things about this one: it has Symbiont, I don't feel like I need to mention the reason it's nice on a sniper a third time. It also has Mimetism, always a welcome skill. And it gets Veteran Lv1, so it can't ever be Isolated, which is nice. And Triads, this is the third Triad joining sniper available to Tohaa, with all the benefits that entails. And now for the main thing this sniper has to stand out from the rest: the Sniper Rifle itself, the K1 Sniper Rifle. K1 ammunition is a useful way to circumvent high armor values: it might be damage 12, but it ignores the enemies ARM in its entirety, and the enemy can at best get the bonus to their save from Cover, but even then they need a 10+ to succeed, so all result from 1-9 will still go through, which is pretty decent when talking about shooting at armoured opponents: anything with 3 ARM was already at the same odds of succeeding at their armor rolls VS the other Snipers ( Excluding the Nikoul. ) from cover, so any ARM above that you have better odds at punching through than with the others, while only ARM 1-2 units get better odds at survival from within cover than they had before. So I'd say the Sukeul Sniper is a worth consideration when looking for a higher grade sniper in your defensive Triad. Armand LeMuet: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 ARMAND (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 42) ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 45) 3 SWC | 87 Points Open in Infinity Army Now while not strictly a Tohaa sniper, he is available to the faction without need for any Extras, so I feel like I should mention him too. First things first, he costs a lot, the most of any sniper in the faction. And what do you get for that cost? Tied best BS among Tohaa snipers, tied with the Sukeul at 13, Symbiont Armour, which gets ODD on the Active Symbiont profile, your choice of Minelayer or MSV1 or Minelayer, FD1 ( FD2 now that Bravery is a thing. ) AND a MULTI-Sniper Rifle. All the things that make the things useful for the first few things are self explanatory: high BS never goes amiss, Symbiont is always nice, ODD is great too, MSV1/Minelayer helps with enemy Camo/flanking units, FD helps find the perfect sniper nest. The last thing on the list is perhaps the most unique thing about Armand in Tohaa: the MULTI-Sniper. DA ammunition is pretty useful: forcing two armor saves makes the likelihood the enemy will fail one of them increase significantly, and can potentially even cause two Wounds instead of one, and is Anti-Materiel Ammo, for missions where that is relevant. Stun and AP is also a nice bonus, for the few occasions when that might be better than DA ammo. The stronger ammo types and ODD also make Armand able to do some active turn sniping too, being able to weigh a good amount of negative MODs in his favor. He is expensive, but he brings a good chunk of things for the price, and I've heard people like him quite a bit, so there is that too. So, there it is, my long ramble about why I think Tohaa has some pretty cool snipers. And as a person who likes snipers, I think that is pretty damn cool. Thanks for bearing through this convoluted ramble. What do you think about these snipers? Which ones do you like most? Do you even like snipers in general, and if so, what do you like about them and what interesting info can you share about them? Looking forward to seeing what sort of discussion may or may not sprout here.
TL DR Stopped reading there A similar discussion had been somewhere here in the last weeks. First, as an Tohaa player you normally prefer the B2 aro of a Trad. There are only Sukeul, Gao Rael and Kamael left. The K1 of the Sukeul is against not high armored target worst then the normal Sniper of the other two. Therefore he is out. Kamael has an incredible BS of 11 and no Bonus of an full Linkteam, also only one wound and no Symbiomate. I've tried an defensive triad with 2 Kamael Sniper and an Kaeltar and was unhappy with it. Therefore my only choice is the Gao Rael. Edit: found it! Edit2: The Clipsos could be used in the way you are talking, but there is one problem: Noone uses the Neurocinetics Chaksa. It are 25 wasted points. He has an BS 11 and no defensive mods like ODD or Mimetism and can't be boosted by support wäre. The 360 visor isn't helpful either, only expensive.
I used it as an example unit since it was the first thing to come to mind to me. Any other defensive unit would work for the example, I suppose. Yeah, I have a very bad habit of snooping into the business of every faction... su much so I find myself trying to Speculative Fire Lieutenants more often than I expect myself to. Is a bad habit though, I admit.
Newer player but I've been running a Gao-Rael with both my Kaeltars in a Triad and it's been awesome. Great ARO piece against most armies and having all those models in the back is where they all want to be. Had a game against Haqq yesterday where he killed an entire Harris team, several Mutts, and occupied a lot of attention.
I never rated the Clipsos Sniper but having a HD sniper that you can sacrifice to take out link bonus's, counter camo and is generally a pain is so good. It's one of my go to long ranged ARO pieces now. I would also put the Sukeul ML in a similar boat as snipers for Tohaa though it's also a great active piece with the LSG and minetism. Muet is probably the best in Tohaa as he can get a Symbiomate which makes him disgustingly resilient. I prefer the Minelayer profile to the MSV1 as the proliferation of white noise and Albedo mean that you need something to cover without MSV. The Sukeul ML is probably a bit better at this though.
Any other ARO peace is normally an Triad, where you have to spend 36+ points (would recommand 45+). On top of this you would have to spent the extra points. I realized, that in every other army the 27 points TO sniper would be extremely viabel, but in Tohaa, where nearly every model has a B2 ARO,who are dangerous to the active player, there is nearly no space for him. Play a little bit with the Infinity Dice Calculator. You will see, how strong this B2 is compared to other options.
Nice write up, though I thought it worth noting that MSV1 does nothing against Smoke+MSV2 Shenanigans. Also to add the the Nikoul's usefulness is that because its Mimitism is granted by Sapper rather than its Symbiont Armor, it does not loose Mimitism when it looses its first wound. The Nikoul's main purpose is to take as many orders as possible for the enemy to kill. Also Le Muet is a beast of an active turn sniper, and he is especially deadly when you pair him with a symbiomate, and symbiobomb. I generally take the MSV1 version to give him an edge on other Camo/ODD units, and use the bomb to keep him from getting ambushed by a CC unit, but if you take the minelayer version, you can use Mirror ball to set up a white noise zone to take out enemy MSV units.
Realised that I totally missed the CH:MIMETISM from foxhole state. Therefore the Nikoul could be versatile.
I ticked Gao Rael and Kamael Gao Rael Sniper is the unsung hero of Tohaa. It is the first SWC model I include and the last one I ever cut. Especially since Symbiomates came out this guy is as close to a crutch as I've ever found in this faction. I firmly believe the statement in the OP about needing smoke to go offensive with this guy is overblown too. While Smoke/Visor is a known power combo, a linked Gao Rael is able to put the hurt on most targets without the smoke too. Kamael Sniper is a terrible primary defense piece, but a great way to use 0.5 unspent SWC. A friend of mine uses the Ghulam equivalent in Haqqislam to good effect, watching low threat horizontal lines across or near the deployment zone to zone out specialists, warbands, and airdrops that might move through that area. Linked that can be a late game lock piece if everything good on the board is dead, but that really has to be *everything*. I see the Kaauri as a slightly more expensive, non linkable version of the Kamael. More cost and no B2 is a bad trade despite the MSV1. Sixth Sense is overrated on this unit IMO, as most troopers that would engage it will beat it even without smoke or surprise shot. But I can understand why someone would take it as an anti-camo skewed version of the Kamael. Nikaul is not my favourite piece. Despite mimetism, MSV1 or a mine which are all nice tools, it cannot link, and critically once foxholed it cannot guts after taking hits, meaning it is not going to absorb orders and go to ground, but instead will die and die fast with its one burst. Its also expensive at 1.5 SWC vs the 1 or 0.5 of the other ARO options I've mentioned. I want to like Nikauls, they are a cool profile and I own not one but two of this damn model, but personally with how good Triad is for the ARO game I don't know why this profile exists. I would like to see it get Ambush camouflage due to the name, but not sure how that would work with sapper... Le Meut - see Nikaul. Very similar profile, slightly different strengths and weaknesses and usage but the same "it's not linked" weakness applies. Maybe it can do something interesting with Forward Deployment L2 in ITS10? I haven't given the Sukuel K1 Sniper a second glance really. If I want an ARO Sukuel I take the missile. I just don't rate this weapon highly except against TAGs, and then the missile is also a good option. It's also expensive at 1.5 SWC - would rather take an HMG, and trade away K1 for being a ruthless active turn shooter. I have given the Clipsos sniper *far* too much table time. It has the same weakness as other HD snipers - lots of points for one shot, then it probably dies. In this case though, its a low BS sniper, not a high BS template weapon. Its entirely possible that I'm just shit with them, but every time I come back to putting one of these in my lists I find myself wishing it was literally anything else in the Tohaa roster.
Doesn't it soften the negative MODs for shooting back at someone through various Visibility zones? Will have to check that myself, TBH... Probably very poor phrasing on my part then.
See https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/list-building-gao-rael-sniper-vs-nikoul.23111/ K1 sniper is dross, just take the missile on the Sukeul. I also think the 'sniper triad' of multiple Kamael snipers are crap, the Kamael sniper itself is a useful option to dig yourself out of a hole but just feeding your opponent 32/1 is fairly poor imo. I like the Nikoul for tournament play, I don't always take it locally where I know we have adequate terrain but if you expect sparse boards his sapper is extremely useful.
I find my opponents in fear of Nikoul more often than of Gao-Rael Sniper. After all, Gao-Rael Sniper has nothing except his MSV2 and Symbiont Armour, and you're much more restricted in where you place it. Nikoul, on the other hand, can be literally plopped anywhere where you want a threat to be present, and it has some tools to protect its ZoC, in addition to having a much more deadly weapon. I mean, I had one of my opponents spend 4 consecutive orders on trying to get rid of my Nikoul because they were fearing for their TAG's wellbeing. If I wanted a BS12 Sniper with just an MSV2, I'd play PanO.
Nisse has mimetism and MSR Black Friar doesn't exist. Not to mention with Tohaa you also get the free wound just for showing up and a symbiomate for breathing.
DAM 15 Viral on the Nikoul can hit very hard, but I've found that the extra Burst on the linked Gao-Rael makes him consistently win more FtF rolls.
People in this Forum make it sound as if every Tohaa trooper carries a Symbiont Armour and a Symbiomte. But somehow Army inisists that it's not a legal army list. How does people do that? Do I have a problem with my Internet Browser?
Not all ariadnans have Camo nor all of them are Vet Kazaks or Tankhunters either. Those are just the important parts, and because of that more noticeable. Still symbiont armor is cheap and abundant and you can put a symbiomate on all your important troopers, so where ever it counts, they are there. Just take a look at this: Tohaa ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 SAKIEL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23) KAMAEL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) 2.5 SWC | 41 Points Open in Infinity Army That's likely the second best 5 points you can spend in Infinity (the first one would be a Ghazi).
If you need to win firefights, take an HMG or Spitfire, not Sniper Rifle :) Nikoul is there mainly to disrupt my opponent's advance and cause them to spend orders which they might've used on fulfilling the objectives. Actually, this made me want to try the Spitfire Gao-Rael, I've never used it before.
Agree, the Sakiel is awesome thanks to that Frenzy discount. But that's different than implying that ANY Tohaa carries Symbiont Armour AND Symbiomate, as many people does in the Forum. I was talking about ARO, not Active. But regarding Active Turn, I've decimated whole Fireteams from afar with the Gao-Rael Sniper. I've vowed to use him only in 50% or less of my games because sometimes I feel bad while murdering everything with him. Smoke Combo makes him even Nastier.
