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Impetuous bikers shenanigans

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Ogid, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Impetuous bikers are hard to control, but this behaviour add an extra layer of complexity to them:
    Things in the wiki about impetuous movement:
    The Common Skill Move is mandatory in all Impetuous Orders, where it works in a specific and limited way.

    • When a trooper declares Move as part of an Impetuous Order, he always moves the entirety of his corresponding MOV value.
    • For example, if an Impetuous (or Extremely Impetuous) trooper declares Move once during an Impetuous Order, he moves the total amount of inches indicated by the first value of his MOV. If Move is declared a second time during the Impetuous Order, he also moves the full number of inches indicated by the second value of his MOV.
    • A trooper using an Impetuous Order can move a distance shorter than the maximum only if he reaches base contact with an enemy, or if he enters an area of Special Terrain that impairs his Movement or forces him to declare Jump or Climb in order to keep moving.
    Impetuous Order: Direction of Movement
    When executing a Move as part of an Impetuous Order, the trooper must move towards the nearest enemy figure by the most direct route possible.

    The nearest enemy figure is the one that can be reached in the least number of Orders, even if that figure is not in LoF. Jump or Climb skills must be used if that would shorten the route.

    As shown by the Impetuous Order Chart, an Impetuous (or Extremely Impetuous) trooper can substitute the combination of the mandatory Common Skill Move + [allowed Skill] for the Entire Order Skills Climb or Jump if these are necessary to fulfill his obligation to advance towards the nearest enemy.

    In this case, as it would when using Move, the movement declared with Climb or Jump must be the entirety of the first value of the trooper's MOV, and must be directed towards the nearest enemy figure, or towards the enemy Deployment Zone without retreating unless forced to by terrain.

    RAW a bike doesn't fulfill that so the biker must move his entire movement, only being the bike relevant if you can enter in b2b after moving a full movement.
    However the answers of @Mahtamori and @ijw before could mean that the mbike could enter in the special cases which may let the biker move less than his maximum MOV value.

    Now here we have something that may clash with the above, if you are not exactly 1 MOV away from the bike and are forced to move it, but the bike way is faster, then you will have to break one of these 2 rules.

    So backtracking towards the bike would be questionable rules wise.

    So, how is this done trying to take advantage of your biker impetuous movement, but without straight cheating? XD

    I guess a with the answer we have in this thread some middle point rules could be these:

    • If the shorter path is the bike, take the bike
    • If the bike and on foot paths take the same turns, go on foot unless you can reach the bike without moving less than the max MOV value and backtrack.
    So, if the biker and the bike are in the same spot:
    • For a 8-4 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-32 inches: Unmounted; 33-37 inches: Bike; 38-40 inches: Unmounted; 41+ inches: Bike
    • For a 8-6 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-24 inches: Unmounted; 25-28 inches: Bike; 29-32 inches: Unmounted; 33+ inches: Bike
    However if the biker have move back a 4 inches: The last point (not taking in count those weird bike inches in the middle) reduces to 29 and 21 inches for the 8-4 and 8-6 respectively; if the biker move back 8 inches these are reduced to 17 inches in both cases.
     
  2. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    How does that work with the zondnautica where the bike is a mobile REM trooper ?

    A zondnautica deployed dismounted will run in direction of its G:Sync instead of running in direction of the enemy trooper ?

    How will the G:Sync move then ? Stay immobile so the biker can mount, move in direction of the biker so it can mount faster, move in direction of the enemy trooper with the biker running after it like a cartoon ?
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that it is up to you as the player to make sure the Zondnautica pilot moves in a legal manner, which would mandate that you move the two so that the pilot can mount in their next order. If you during the Impetuous Order move the bike away so as you can't mount then the pilot's movement would not be legal.
     
  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I'd say this one, both are impetuous and both must move; unless they are in b2b, in that case you must choose mount because is the faster way for the biker.
     
  5. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    @ijw could you revise/ask for a clarification about this unmounted motorbiker interaction? There are many loose ends.
     
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  6. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Should I add this to the unsolved question list ?
     
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  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Good idea, I'll think about how we can present it to incluse the info of the thread and post a question later.
     
  8. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    The Zondmate is impetuous as well, and they move during the same order - the zondmate has to use its full first MOV value to get to the closest enemy, which might take it out of the range of its pilot (8-4 MOV vs 4-4 MOV). Might even loose the sync in the next turn...
    Like - the bike is running away from its rider... :joy:

    And, just as a side note:
    You can (depending on table layout) block the bikes with S5 or larger (Daiyokai, Oyoroi) troops. This forces the pilot to unmount and move without the bike to fullfil the impetuous requirements.
     
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  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Yeah, as with all Impetuous G: Sync/G: Servant/Antipode units, each trooper is going to be working out it's route separately.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Does the biker work out its route before the bike Moves or is that at the discretion of the user? (As in, the sufficiently significant number of situations where it's faster for the biker to run to the bike and mount it than run on their own)
     
  11. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    The AI case is different to the normal Mbiker case, in the normal case the bike is not going anywhere, but in the AI case the bike has its own agenda and it won't wait for anyone because that would be an illegal movement for his impetuous movement; the only exception would be if the pilot is in b2b at the start of the impetuous phase because that won't stop it for moving.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That does not address the concern.

    When plotting the course for the biker, the biker must take the course that consume the least amount of orders regardless of what the bike does. Do you plot the biker's route before or after the bike has made its impetuous movement?

    It would be more natural to assume that the biker will never be able to catch up and should ignore the bike, but I don't see much room in the rules for this assumption (much like "the Shaolin will never catch up to the Uhlan, as the Uhlan will make it a priority to move away, so it should not move towards it" is the wrong assumption to make.)
     
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  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Ah ok, I get you now... the rules for that aren't defined so I'm not 100% sure. I'd say that a player has to consider the G:Sync is going to move, so going towards the initial spot of the bike isn't an option; but maybe going towards the final one could be...
    Good question.
     
  14. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't the bike also "want" to be mounted if that is faster? In theory that should sometimes be the fasted way for it to get somewhere as well. So could it happen that they move into btb with each other with the impetious order?
     
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  15. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    The AI bike has its own agenda (get to that model as fast as possible and put a chain rifle in his face) and its movement doesn't change between the 2 profiles so it has no interest in waiting for the biker (but the biker is much slower, so she could be interested in get the bike)
     
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  16. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    So if i get this right it is perfectly possible for the zondmate to run out of coherency and deactivate? (For example if the closest trooper for each of them is in different directions)

    Never thought of that. And if i want to stop that with discarding a regular order do i need to use 2 regular orders? (Of course on an extremely impetious G.Synch team not the zondnautica)
     
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  17. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, each model works in its route independently (check ijw response above)
    No, the G:Synch is tied to his controller; if you cancel the impetuous order of the controller, the G:Sync won't perform it.
     
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  18. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Sry for going so much off-topic here but even for the devildog team? The K9-antipode has his own impetuous marker in army. But he also has an irregular marker so i assume that is a mistake?
     
  19. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    It's more like a reminder, these are by default in all models (check the G:Sync remotes or any other G:Sync); in this case the controller is extremely impetuous so these are also in the G:Sync. The G:Sync ability just overrule that.
    EDIT: Check the Uberfall, you definitelly don't need 4 orders to cancel that; just cancel the chimera impetuous and the pupniks will be cool.
     
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  20. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    It is just weird that it is there sometimes and sometimes not. The oznat for example doesn't have it on his synch Preta.
     
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