I'll leave this out there for us to salivate over ...

I think I was hoping for a bit more dynamic poses, especially for Super-Jumpers. I like that their swords are modeled though.

 

I won't, because that's the crux of the complaint. FAT2 has a bad interaction with the critical rule at low BS levels which causes it to drastically inflate odds when firing with a bad BS stat which encourages people to gamble on stupid decisions, which in turn, makes for a boring game.

You are completely missing the point of the argument.

It's not being called a strong rule, at least not by me, it's being referred to as a stupid rule. The problem isn't about power level it's about it just encouraging players to play the game in an aggravating and stupid manner that isn't much fun.

When one player turns up to play a strategy game, having his opponent just do the tactical equivalent of throwing crayons at him instead of actually playing the game isn't alot of fun regardless of who wins, and the rules shouldn't encourage them to do that.

FAT2 should reward people for using it well rather, rather than how its designed right now where the biggest benefit goes to the people throwing crayons.

 

@Triumph
They are encouraged even more to use actually existing ways to achieve at least half-decent odds. If they prefer to throw crayons still, there's not much you can do on a rational front against it.

 

I really like the look of the MK12. It's an interesting unique design for them while maintaining the big, chunky magazine of the high-caliber bullets. While the swords are really cool in design, I think they may cause problems for the model practically, butting up against buildings, taking cover on walls, ect. that sort of thing

 

There is, you don't give them good enough odds to encourage the behaviour. The player in question we're talking about does not play Bahram like he plays Vanilla. Bahram involves alot of careful smoke templates, slicing the pie etc. You give him Tarik next thing I know he's super jumped him through 2 Chain Rifles because he wants to take shots on 4s at a Hac Tao.

As soon as he picks up Tarik all rational thought goes out the window.

If you make the odds more punishing, they'll stop doing it if they keep getting punished and don't win enough. Fatality gives them enough wins that they keep doing it, call it a drug or whatever it gives them enough of a taste of victory they keep going for it.

 

I strongly agree with Triumph, the rule encourages shitty play. I'm not a fan of crit mechanic altogether cause is so strong, it overrides everything.
Having twice the chance of critting is bollocks. I had games with ppl fishing for crits and got them...fcking annoying.

Why are you attacking him...make an argument or ignore him....

 

That's a problem with a particular player. Irrelevant for the larger discussion.

Linked HMGs are crayon throwing just the same. In both cases, you select a model that has certain gear or skills that help them succeed at ranged fights through high burst. You use that to shoot and kill bad guys. FAT2 is just another tool to leverage.

 

we already tried that pages ago. He just shuts his ears and goes "nah nah nah nah nah". I agree with Gregg, the thread is better off without regurgitating the same argument over and over again, it's clear no one is changing their minds or even listening for that matter

 

Why with the childish behavior ? Atacking doesn't make for a strong argument.

 

The HRL seems a bit too similar to the Zhayedan Breaker Rifle. Not enough to be bad or poorly done, but just enough (to me) to be noticeable and have that little niggle whenever I'll see it, detracting from the mini. Kind of taking it from an 8 or 7 out of 10 to a 7.5 or 6.5.

Edit: I mean the Mk12, not the HRL.

 

I do, I like the MK12. I'm a sucker for the dynamically shooting pistol pose.

If it makes you feel better, the HRL may not be a particularly popular option. I have a feeling the spitfire will be the go-to for many people

 

Sorry, I meant the Mk12, not the HRL.

 

I am interested, I'm looking for a third faction. No trouble here, I just don't agree with you nor your approach.

 

ah, got you. yes, well, that may be a very popular profile to say the least. It is ver reminiscent of the Zheayadan though.

 

The Mk12 also looks a bit like the Ghulam hacker, but I think that's cool. It's a good pose and the Haqqislam Mk12 is a nicely modeled gun.

I think the boarding shotgun is the most dynamic model, with the flowing long coat, he really looks like he's running. The Spitfire is probably my least favorite, although I think it's still beautiful. It is just another generic room clearing pose and I don't really like the Haqqislam Spitfire model.

 

While I like pistol poses, I wish the Mk12 guy was using the Mk12. I think pistol poses are best used to help separate specialists from the default load outs, or at least differentiating them from one another. That being said, Haqq is kind of a terrible faction for this because most of our profiles use shotguns at close range instead of pistols. The only guys who are really using the pistols are the special weapons profiles they don't give shotguns too. Anyway, all in all I think they look pretty nice. Nit picks for me are: Could be slightly more dynamic as other people have observed. Would have been cool if there was a lady. but then maybe there aren't female Khawarji, it's been awhile since I've read their fluff.


As far as Fat2 goes, I'm also sorta with @Triumph on this one. It's not the best rule because there's no real counter play for it besides, i guess, spec fire shenanigans or sneaking a guy into CC (though in Tarik's case, he's not exactly a slouch in CC). ODD getting you down? Grab some MSV. Link team getting you down? Grab some nimbus or visual mods. Impetous Direct Templates getting you down? Bring some mines or templates of your own. Impersonation got you down? Bring some DZ defense (or biometric i guess if you have a faction with a profile that's worth taking). With Fat2 what are you going to do? I guess try and take them out in your active turn with a multiwound model. Though again, in our specific case, that's not the easiest thing to do since super jumpers kind of excel at finding hard to reach places to hide in the reactive turn. Linked Kamau are oppressive, probably much more so than Tarik, but you still have some agency in trying to play against them and mitigate their advantages. There's nothing you can do reduce the increased crit chance an Fat2 model has in the active turn. And if the rule is on a model with MSV2, like our Kawarij could have, then you can even stop them from shooting with smoke. Well, I take that back, if you can somehow arrange so that your opponent is always fighting you at -12 and only hitting on ones, then Fat2 provides no benefit.

Regardless. For me, it's the rules extremely limited, bordering on non existent, counterplay that makes it feel very unfun, and a weak rule as a result.

 

Yeah, I'd also prefer the fresh new nice Mk12 be in used - instead of a pistol ;) The gun itself looks decent, the mini also, but the pose could be better. All of those 4 guys look very similar and I'm a bit dissapointed that CB didn't do them like Ghazis for example - with one leg different, even in a pair it would change the whole feel of them. One guy jumping would be cool.
I still like them, TBH, but they could be just a bit better ;)


PozdRawiam / Greetings