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Ikari Fireteams Clarification - PDF and Army not the same

Discussion in 'Rules' started by paraelix, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    So the new NA2 sectorials have hit Army and Profile PDFs, and there are discrepancies. Not only this, but Ikari has some uniquely displayed Fireteam options.

    First, what has precedence - PDF or Army? The PDF says Wu Ming can only Haris and Special. The PDF also says Druze can only Duo, Haris and Special.
    Fireteam PDF.jpg

    But Army lists both unit types with the Fireteam: Core rule. So can they still form standard Fireteam: Core?
    Druze Core.jpg Wu ming Core.jpg

    Furthermore, if Army is incorrect and these units cannot compose a normal Fireteam: Core, can it please be clarified if the special Fireteams are hard limits?

    For example, it says 4 Wu Ming + 1 Clipper Dronbot. If a Wu Ming Link Leader is killed in this link, and there are only 3 Wu Ming and a Clipper remaining, can they form a link? Or is it mandatory for it to be 4 Wu Ming + 1 Clipper, or the Haris of 2 Wu Ming + 1 Clipper?
    Example 2 - 3 Keisotsu + 1 Tanko + 1 Brawler. The Brawler is link leader and gets killed, can the Keisotsu form a new link with the Tanko?

    My issue is that these links, unlike every other Sectorial, are hard numbers. It says specifically "4 of Trooper X + 1 of Trooper Y" instead of "Up to 4 of Trooper X".
    PDF Links.jpg

    This strikes me as an intentional wording, given that StarCo has the normal "Up to X troops" wording and was released at the same time.

    Starco.jpg
     
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  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Go by the Sectorial chart and notes. Army listing Core as a Skill (which isn't a Skill) just confuses things. :(

    And yes, Druze and Wu Ming can't form normal Fireteams: Core in Ikari, only the 'full' Special Cores listed. This also means that 3 Keisotsu + 1 Tanko + 1 Brawler must be formed with exactly that number of troops, you can't form it if anyone is missing, including with only 2 Keisotsu.
     
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  3. Thranriel

    Thranriel Active Member

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    Does this mean then as soon as you lose one member from the fireteam, you are reduced under the minimum requirements for the team and the whole thing breaks?

    I'm thinking about the 3rd bullet point on this page http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam_Cancellation
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    These are the requirements for forming the Fireteam. The minimum number of troopers for a Fireteam: Core is still two.
     
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  5. Lothair

    Lothair Well-Known Member

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    BTW does the "+ NAME" mean that I have to use the character?

    For example, Up to 4 Riot Grrls + Emily Handleman = can I just use 4 riot grrls or do I have to include emily to for the link?
     
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Correct, if it is special all components must be present.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm still trying to understand this. I'm new to Ikari.

    So the below list
    1. If one Wu Ming, or the Clipper goes down, the core link is broken and can't reform as a core link because you need exactly 4 Wu Ming.

    2. However, if the Wu Ming with Haris skill is still alive, it could create a Haris with him, 1 Wu Ming & the Clipper. But this is only if there's no other haris team already existing on the table or you break it to form this one.

    3. if the Clipper goes down, nothing can be reformed because the Haris option requires the Clipper as well as the Haris Wu Ming.

    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] CLIPPER DRONBOT Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)

    Also, I'm confused by the Army Creator vs. the PDF. Is there, or is there Not, a Wu Ming with Combe-E/Mitter with Duo skill, in Ikari?
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Wu Ming can't form Duos in Ikari, so the Duo profile was omitted (check the Sectorial chart in the PDF, only Special and Haris are allowed)

    If you have 4 Wu Ming and a Clipper the link doesn't break if one dies, the restrictions are on forming the Fireteam only, however should the link break for any reason you would only be able to reform if you still met the requirements, this makes an EVO remote running TeamPro quite useful for Ikari.

    Having a Haris Wu Ming in the Special Core Fireteam won't do anything in and of itself, however it does let you form a Wu Ming Haris should the special Core break.
     
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  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for replying so fast!

    I think I have it. So as long as the team doesn't break, the team can keep going as it is. But if the team breaks, it can't be reformed unless you have team pro, because it keeps the team from breaking.

    Kind of a bummer but l can live with it!
     
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  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    TeamPro doesn't allow you to reform, it just stops it breaking by giving all members No. 2.

    The fragile and restrictive links are a deliberate design decision for Ikari.
     
    #10 colbrook, Jul 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Another confusing thing, Druze have a guy with a Haris skill but it looks like they can't form a Haris.
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Why can't they form a Haris? It's listed in the Sectorial chart.
     
  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That's whats confusing me. On the PDF it says Haris, and below it only says Special Fireteam Core. Some have said Druze Haris is a mistake.

    The PDF also has the Wu Ming Duo but the Army creator does not.
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Which PDF are you looking at? The Uprising profiles PDF clearly lists 'Duo, Haris, Core, Special' for Druze.

    EDIT - sorry, I thought we were now talking about the Druze Sectorial.

    For Ikari it lists Duo, Haris and Special, as expected.
     
    #14 ijw, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  15. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Here's a screenshot, Duo, Haris, and Special for Druze, no Duo for Wu Ming, are you sure you have the latest version of the PDF?
    Screenshot_20180719-142927.png
     
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  16. Jedkar Midune

    Jedkar Midune Member

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    Quick query on teampro:
    In the rules fireteam cancellation occurs if: "In case the number of members is reduced to fewer than the minimum required by its Fireteam type, either because they break the Coherency from the Team Leader, they enter the Isolated state or any Null state, or any other gaming condition that reduces the number of Fireteam members."

    I can't see why EVO:teampro stops the 4 Wu Ming + Clipper special fireteam to be cancelled. Please enlight me.
     
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Because Fireteam Core has a minimum of 2 members and will break off you have less.

    TeamPro means the Fireteam doesn't break when the leader is killed.

    The Special Fireteam restrictions only apply to Forming a Fireteam. So if the Clipper is leader and is killed, TeamPro lets one of the Wu Ming take over as leader and stops the link breaking.
     
    #17 colbrook, Sep 7, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
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  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Can someone clarify if ISS can take CSUs? According to the PDF they can't even take them. But they are in Infinity Army with Duo ability.
     
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  19. Jedkar Midune

    Jedkar Midune Member

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    Ok I got that however, in the special fireteam example if the clipper triggers one of the fireteam cancellation conditions doesn't this mean that there is no longer a valid fireteam? e.g. we had a fireteam because we had the 5 required models, 4 or less left triggers fireteam cancellation... believe me I want the EVO: teampro program to make sense.
     
  20. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Once again the 4 Wu Ming + Clipper is a restriction on formation of the Fireteam only.

    Once the team is formed it only breaks if it goes below the minimum number of members, which for a Core Fireteam (normal Core or Special Core) is less than two members.