Iguana with Jazz and Maestro.

OT: White Noise + Taskmaster is hardly trivial in Bakunin. That's 87pts of a combo that doesn't naturally pair outside of SSL2 MSV ARO killing.

I can count on my hand the amount of times I've run them together.

*Shrug* they're meta-definining AROs and there's not much point complaining about it.

Order spam and core linked Tsyklon is probably the best way to go about it Turn 1. You're looking at 6 orders as a budget and it allows a lot of other options in the list (Budget = Supportware + Shoot fail + Repair + Shoot fail + Repair + Shoot Succeed).

Normally, and particularly with CJC, I try not to fight the ARO turn 1 and instead play around it stripping away it's defence: Massacre Haris as a turn 1 button pushing / midfield combat option is golden for this. It opens up Bandit and AD plays against the link turn 2 or 3.

 

It's more that most of my BJC lists tend to have a TM and Custodier in them due to them being useful stand alone pieces, so it ends up being trivial for me.

Spitfire or Feuerbach?

 

Either.

Feurbach can do it without leaving the DZ. Your on 45 vs 33 percent for 1 wound each or 26 vs 3 for Dead. Basically you expect to fail once or twice and be able to repair it because failing to Dead is relatively unlikely. It relies on the "I can fail lots of times, you can only fail once" principle.

Unfortunately, it's not particularly efficient because of the high odds of failure. But unlike an Intruder even removing a single member from the link significantly improves the odds (B3 15s vs B2 16s to B3 15 vs vs B2 13s).

It's similar odds to a MB HMG but unlike the HMG where a failure has permanent consequences, you can basically repair the consequences of failure (also unless your opponent is REALLY switched on they won't think to use Stun Ammo because it's quite easy to 'kill' the Tsyklon).

Tsyklon Spitfire works better on paper, but you need to get it under 24" which requires pushing the link forward. So it's probably more order intensive than the Feurbach (particularly in terms of recovering from a failure).

I'm kinda on a 'why not both?' approach though. Both easily fit into the same Fireteam, so there's no reason not to have both options.

Tsyklon Spitfire is ok on its own if you can get into the sweet 16" range as well (which is more easily doable in Vanilla with White Noise): it's 43 vs 28%.

But the key to brute forcing a Kamau or similar with REMs is being able to repair it after it goes down. Tsyklons are particularly good at this because of their high ARM and access to decent engineers.*

* This BTW is why I'm STILL disappointed that a Wildcat Haris with a Tsyklon is not a thing: it would have been ideal as a response to SSL2 Mimmetism AROs, because the Tsyklon would drag an Engineer along with it.

 

Except the command token cost of failed repair rolls and reforming the fireteam. You can probably only fail 2 or 3 times. At least you shock them (althou that immunity is given out to ARO focused guys often) Still a good option and I find having a tsyklon feuerbach in the link is more generally useful (and cheaper) than the Brigada.

They basically haven't touched Wildcats except by not removing their access to wildcards. I hope that's because they have plans for them so it feels pointless to make a temp change. One of my favorite lists was Wildcat core and an Iguana and I hope that's more useful someday.

 

I dunno the Feuerbach Tsyklon is cheaper than the Brigada considering you need a Hacker and a Clockmaker to make the REM sing. Whereas a Brigada just needs the Daktari Wildcard you were bringing anyway. Depends a bit If you want an active and reactive piece, since the Feuerbach is pretty decent at both while the ML and HMG HI each excel at one. Jazz does tip the scales in the REMs favour a fair bit too I think.

 

34 + 18 + 18 + (3) = 70 (73)

40 + 10 + 10 = 60

You're ~ 1 order less for the Tsyklon compared to the equivalent in MB+Jaguars/Algs. But you get an extremely good Hacker and an Engineer for that: given that a Hacking device alone is 8pts (1 order) it's basically trading a HD for 1 order.

Where you save points is when you run a Spitfire Tsyklon + Feurbach Tsyklon in comparison to the MB HMG + MB ML. The cost difference basically pays for a Clockmaker.

The other point though is that the Dak probably shares the same order pool as the MB, whereas the Clockmaker can be in the second pool. Whether that's an advantage will depend on list design.

You also tie the Dak to the MB link so you lose the option of a Dak + Massacre Haris (fuck CJC's AVA).

I think both are good options but they drive quite different list designs.

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Back on topic though:

Given the reality of SSL2 Mimmetism AROs, other than C&P (where Iggy is hilarious), when is it worthwhile taking it?

And how would you support it?

 

You are more than likely taking more than just the Tsyklon as REM support in your list so you probably have the HD anyway, same goes for the engineer (especially if you also have a Reaktion in the list).

 

Maybe SoF, and I stress maybe, as it competes with Gecko's which are a little more durable, better at brawling range bands, and easier to hide. The Iguana can downgrade to EDL1 to pop out on the objective in smoke(providing the pilot doesn't become unconscious to overkill). But if it does so the pilot can not just get devoured by CC specialists with out putting up a fight.

In area control missions the pilot can eject onto a roof (or some other hard to reach spot) somewhere and hide prone while being 75 points in a zone.

 

I don't think you can downgrade to ED: Escape System because it's not a leveled skill. We have ED2: and ED(no number). Whereas AD and Camo start counting at 1.

But *shrugs* that does make Iggy a little bit better at SOF. My preference in that mission is Geckos though: they're the TAG you're having when you're running a TAGless list, so you get a little bit of cake and eating it with them.

Frontline or Quadrant Control could work.

 

In army score missions as well, I was shocked at how effective this is. That's the main use of Iguana IMO.

 

I've always said Iggy is just a delivery system for a mediocre HI lol. Has only become more so IMHO.

I guess so. Given how cost effective CJCs light infantry / WBs are I'm not always taking those things anyway though. So I guess the answer is 'It depends what synergies you are going for which is probably the best kinda answer. Despite still having a fair few fairly dated profiles and sculpts CJC seem in a pretty good place in terms of competitive options. Wish I could say the same for BJC

ON topic, I think the best use for an Iguana is still to proxy it for a Lizard.

 

But.... Lizzie is beautiful :'(

 

I honestly think that if you're anything short of trying to win large tournaments you can probably do well with the Iguana after developing a strategy. I just don't have the ability to guide someone.

 

Jazz with that deflector L2 is certainly terrifying. Expensive but maybe worth it esp in missions with Hacking bonus button pushing, or trans matrix.

 

I think it'd be really good if the Tinbot was just stuck on the the Combi. Compare ZY which get Tinbots on the Haris as well as the 'standard' profile. I absolutely don't think it should be on the HMG, but it would have been interesting for the Lt profile to get Tinbots (or be the Tinbot profile).

 

Yeah, if that profile was designed today pretty sure it would have something else interesting about it other than just the tinbot. It'd be on the hacker, or have a Lt option, or haris, or at least a multirifle.

Put Kaleidoscope on it from an EVO and you're up to -12 even from khds and you can do it from game start with a command token. EVOs are potentially interesting in other ways in CJC too (coordinated hacks, REM buffing, AD buff all synergise pretty well)

 

EVO can also add the reset defense to help Geckos. I use EVO for that, enhanced drop and buffing the Tsyklon. I usually have an EVO.