@Superfluid not all factions are Nomads. In fact some are Yu Jing (no Pitchers and nearly no DepReps) and some factions are Ariadna or Tohaa (no or nearly no hackers at all) We can talk about the difficulties of balancing these extreme profiles, but removing crits auto-wounding is going to cause problems with them and won't address what's actually wrong.
Yu Jing have between 4 to 8 deployable repeaters per list due to kuang shi, and Ariadna and Tohaa are very powerful factions that don't need the help. See my point about how having no hacking presence should be a disadvantage rather than an advantage most of the time. Though I will agree that if there was even the desire by the design team to change crits it would require a lot of subtle balances across the whole game, you couldn't just change that one thing and expect things to be fine overnight.
Probably the two strongest oversimplifications I'll read all week. Kuang Shi equivalent of DepReps/Pitchers hehe... oh boy.
Apart from that Nomads need those repeaters and tricks because of more average BS and other values and weapons. You cannot compare all factions that easy... that is what makes Infinity fun as well.
Eh... it's a lot more complicated than that. First and foremost, you need to remember that this is comms equipment, just like Repeaters, so they can be disabled by Blackout. Second of all, unlike Deployable Repeaters it has only one single use. Third, unlike normal repeaters, they can't be repositioned (unless you use the order-intensive Su-Jian way of doing it). Fourth of all, you can't place it suicidally, because a burning Kuang Shi can die and that doesn't leave the repeater behind unlike with a Guilang. And last but not least, you can't use it as an ARO. They are a tool, an option, but it's not something that's... plan A. Or B. If you intend on creating a hacking net. More of a "Oh fuck, the TAG just went across the to the other flank and now my Kanren is out of position - think quick think quick, I'll sacrifice an my future turns' order and at least prevent him from tearing all of my orders apart".
If they can be disabled by blackout then you've already succeeded in getting a repeater in range of an opponents hacker? So that's good right? If you blackout on a kuang shi does it prevent biolocator from working? Does it? Why wouldn't they stick around? You mean in comparison to normal deployable repeaters being able to place multiple? I think this is balanced by that normally deployable repeaters don't cost 5 points and impetuously run themselves to where they need to be and provide orders up until then. I didn't know you can move deployable repeaters, what skill is this? Also why can't you caseevac the unconscious kuang shi? These last two points are valid, but placing a deployable repeater or biolocating inside line of sight is risky anyway. I understand that, but it's a Plan C that every YJ list will always have, and between 4 to 8 of them even if they didn't actively think about how to deal with a TAG in the list building step.
Tohaa does have problems against TAGs unless we bring the Sukeul to hunt the TAG, but that's fine because having trouble against hight CD and hight ARM targets is one of Tohaa's weakness.
Hmm, with all the viral weapons why do I doubt that ? :) And smokey cc warbands triads also with nice BTS weapons ?
BTS is usually high in those targets, so not a good idea. I mean, against a Viral Combi an average TAG in cover just needs to roll 5's in the BTS roll, and only if they loose the FtF roll against a CD12 shooter. CC viral is not better, unless you spend several orders trying to fish for the crits. And it's Order-expensive to bring the Makaul in Melee contact with the TAG if your oponent is not complete suicidal. You are better off with fire if you get that close. P.S.: Viral is great for murdering IL's and IM's, and against light IP's. But when things get BTS 6, you are better off spraying an HMG or trusting the good K1 ammo.
@Superfluid A Biolocator can be Blacked Out before being deployed. A DepRep doesn't take up space in your combat group and also doesn't cause you to lose your host troop when used. Also a DepRep is about 1 point, the rest of the points are the semi-competent Combi-rifle. A DepRep has three uses, typically more than enough, but I was comparing to normal Repeaters carried by 8 point and 6-6 MOV remotes. Su-Jian can CaseEvac KuangShi, and so can the HI, but typically the high order expenditure cost means it's pointless for any but the Su-Jian (who will typically do it for Shotgun or Flamer shenanigans more than the repeater.) You trying to shoehorn them into a role they are naturally terrible at just because it's possible is ridiculous. Particularly in context of suggesting TAGs somehow are underperforming. Let's build our way out of one type of model underperforming by forcing others to underperform to deal with the monster we just created. Shoddy suggestion right there.
Don't know how I feel about the criticism that it's 'order intensive' to take out a TAG by means other than shooting, that feels correct to me? You shouldn't be able to even somewhat 'efficiently' remove 1/3rd of the opponents points unless you seriously flank them and catch them in bad range bands. It should be a strategic victory to do over a TAG. And at least the PanO tags have equal or lower BTS than their ARM value. I feel that shooting TAGs with poxy weapons should be the least effective way of dealing with them, it just feels wrong if these big mechanical monstrosities get felled by a rifle dude. Kind of strays into Titanfall 2 Terrirtory with really skewed psuedo David & Goliath false equivelancies. @Mahtamori , i'm not trying to say Biolocater is the best use of Kuang Shi, because being cheap area denial disposable netrodding is clearly their best use. And i'm not trying to argue that Biolocating kuang shi is better than an infilitrating unit that has 3 dep repeaters. I am saying that even if you don't put a single dep repeater into your whole army you will still have 4-8 biolocators that have impetuously run themselves into the midfield ready to throw themselves at the feet of any TAG without a repeater and to undo the 80-120 pts investment the enemy brought to the fight. And to your last point, a play where a kuang shi biolocates to allow a hacker to disable a TAG is NOT an instance where a kuang shi has under performed, that is an outstanding use of a 5pt model.
It's not "criticism", I just explained why geting in melee against a TAG using a BTS weapon is not a good idea, because it's Order-expensive and DMG 13 against PB 6 or more make things difficult. Unless the oponent is a suicidal maniac that gets the TAG to your Deplyment Zone, and then yes, it's better to lock it in melee.
If your TAG is on the ground, a triad of makaul are going to have no problem contacting it unless there are deployable weapons already down. They are one of the best units in the game at doing that. If I played Tohaa and needed to take down a TAG, honestly makaul are my first solution.
It's how I lost my Cutter in my deployment zone on my opponents turn 2 at the last tourny I went to, smokey viral CCW.
Almost nothing in the game is hard to kill relative to it's points when your list isn't extremely skewed towards a single aspect or severely damaged in turn 2/3. TAGs in particular are relatively weak to CC, Hacking and a bunch of special Weapon types/ammunition (E/M, AP+EXP, Mono, AP, Breaker ...). Most Warbands earn their points back in turn one, either after dropping so much as a single Smoke or when wasting even a single of your opponent's Orders. TAGs are not very likely to be worth their points if faced with a direct or indirect counter, they require proper handling and protection from getting obliterated by something worth a fraction of their points. The real advantage of a combat TAG isn't it's defense (although it helps being able to tank a ML to the face... but probably only one), instead they're a HI on crack. Being able to selectively ignore single hit AROs in favour of Order efficiency (tanking the occaisonal Mine, Nanopulser or Rifle) is where ARM is worth it's points and shines. Everything a TAG has makes it better at dishing out when you're in charge, 6-4 Move, FAT1, top tier BS. What really sucks for TAGs are oneshot mechanics. E/M, Mono, Isolation, Coup de Grace should not work the way they do against them. IMM-2/Isolation should be removeable at extreme costs, like 2 successful Resets to downgrade it to IMM-1 (so 3 total to get rid of it). Mono should simply cause 3 Wounds so there needs to be some follow up to a suicidal Cube Jäger or Kanren "feeling lucky". Along the same lines Fire should only burn once, there is no need to kill a REM Pres TAG in a single hit. Coup de Grace should simply not work on a TAG, some LI being able to shiv a Jotum to death is not necessary for game balance. All TAGs should be possible to repair with Command Token Rerolls (Rem:Pres has enough other advantages). These wouldn't change much. Currently people don't really expect to run into a TAG so bring like a single (easy to kill) K1 Combi and call it a day. Believe it or not, most TAGs simply die to plain old HMGs to the face. But I'm neither responsible for testing nor balancing. So this is just what I'd call quality of life improvements for my Christmas wishlist. Overall I'm very happy with about half the available TAGs ...and that number is only as low as it is because Nomad TAGs are mostly downgrades of similar PanO equivalents.
Just saying, but a TAG is one of few ways for a Kanren AHD to directly make its points back. You're underestimating the difficulties and cost of getting some of those mono weapons into contact with a TAG means.
