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IA: Hulang shocktroopers

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Cannon Fodder, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    I know it is derailing, but sniffer Kanren is a real fun if you ask me. You can even start the game waving a giant middle finger to your opponent's camo/TO Camo line!
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Kanren isn't terribly expensive, though, and they're in sectorials with cheaper options for orders than Zhanshi. They're also fairly obnoxious for your opponent to clear out that even if they're occupying 30 points, they can do work without getting many orders.

    And the point-defence of MadTraps is not to be underestimated.
     
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  3. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    More Importantly, one of the coolest hacker poses by far![​IMG]
     
  4. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    And one of the best instance of Chain-colt pose too!
     
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  5. Kaiserburger

    Kaiserburger Active Member

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    After going back to vanilla, I find Kanren has reasonably a lot of competitors in Yu Jing (Guilang being the first one, for the use I do of him/her).

    However as an ISS player I found it an almost auto-include in most of my lists (but I'm fairly atypical player...for example...no Su Jian).
    Profiles I love the most (depending on the mission:
    • madtraps, for midfield control;
    • KHD, using FD lv2
    • AHD, not using FD lv2 and disguising it as a piece that should go unnoticed to deploying TAGs. If repeater REMs don't work, I prepare a smoke route and then rush him forward to Overlord some TAGs or ruin HI. It's cheaper than a ninja and does not require the same attention when deploying. It can also be used to confuse the other player on how many Hsien Warriors appear on the table;
    • Forward Observer, as a cheap and good specialist;

    Actually the Hulang looks a mix between a Shikami and the Kanren, but without the tricks of both xD
    It looks more like a TAG slicer even though my preference goes to possess them.

    Guess Hulang's presence in my lists will depend on the miniature aesthetics, as always.
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I really disagree. AD has wacky ARO timing.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    It was official that a hacker that has Hack Transport, must declare to use it when you say you are going to do the jump, if not, you get no ARO. Those with Sixth Sense can wait until the final position.

    It’s also an existing model lol.

    Another thing I like the Kanren vs. Hulang is the Suppression fire. Hulang is good with Mimetisim and all but Holo2 is great. As long as he’s not seen, he goes back into Holo2 automatically and still does Suppression. I’ve done it with the Bashi, Kanren, and Lu Duan.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @Space Ranger Sixth Sense does not allow waiting either because the trooper isn't in the ZOC, that, too, is official.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Where?
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ug now I need to look it up. This was a question in the Rules section a while ago. I do't remember that about the Sixth Sense, but even better! But was that level 1? or both?
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Look, you can't just go "this is different, I don't like it, prove that the rules apply as written or they don't "

    ARO are explicitly take it or lose it. If a hacker says "no" to HTA they have said no to an ARO opportunity and lost it. If you want to nerf the sshit out of ExplodeX, then I guess lobby for it, but questioning the fairly easy to check rules is... yeah...
     
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  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    WAs that to me? I wasn't trying to say that at all. No matter what though, not the best place to be discussing it.

    Back to Hulang, I did find him pretty useful if pared up with a Yuan Yuan in Dahshat. But i haven't used him enough in IA. Every-time I make a list, i end up taking him out.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, to Hecaton, it took a bit over 2 minutes to rephrase some of the cursing :D

    If it helps, IJW has weighed in that he could only see one interpretation. Naturally, he hasn't made it into a hill to die on.
    What's been solidly answered is that Explode through use of Control Device is an attack and that Explode through going unconscious triggers AFTER effects and as such can't be AROed oor avoided.
    I haven't seen CB staff answer the one about AD and HTA, but it's been 4+ years now since it was asked the first time and only started being doubted after release of Liu Xing. Which is why I have a hard time not seeing complaints as anything but hypocritical.
     
    #153 Mahtamori, May 13, 2019
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The issue is that the section in the rules that says you lose your chance to ARO if you don't declare it after the declaration of the first skill *can't* apply to AD deployment, since it says it only generates AROs based off of the final landing position (i.e. not at declaration). How that interacts with HTA is unclear, but the idea that a Liu Xing dropping on a hacker prevents them from dodging the explosion is so questionable I'm not going to accept it unless we have a FAQ statement to that effect. I'm worried that people's desire to make the Liu Xing worthwhile compared to the Tiger Soldier is going to push them to make a FAQ statement that "buffs" the Liu Xing in this way, however.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    No, it's been solidly ruled by @ijw that if someone who CAN declare Hack Transport Aircraft as an ARO declines to use it, that was their ARO declaration for that order.

    Doesn't matter that the Liu Xing may land on their head later in the resolution sequence, they had their chance to ARO and declined.


    Exactly.


    Uhm, you do know that @ijw ruled on that back when the Liu Xing came out, right?

    And even playing that HTA-or-nothing does not help the Liu Xing be viable.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Section9 Nah, I don't think so. The section that talks about "use your ARO or lose it" is in the context of declaring two short skills; there's not really an allowance for HTA/AD and it really needs a clarification. I'm going to call it "unclear" until it gets a FAQ.
     
  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Again, @ijw ruled that hackers either declare HTA or lose their ARO when the Liu Xing raised the question. Can't get much more clear than that.
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Can't get much more clear that IJW thinks that's how it should be, sure. Clearer than that would be in the rules or FAQ.
     
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  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    @ijws' word is the final argument. He proofreads the English rules and maintains the wiki, and is in regular conversation with CB about "is this really what you want the rules to be?"

    Since we're never going to see CB actually answer the fucking question because it's pretty damn clear rules as written.
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Certain FAQ rulings have shown that not to be true.