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IA: Hulang shocktroopers

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Cannon Fodder, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Bro, dont even get me started. Losing Shikami and Oniwaban was the prior reason I got totally mad about Uprising, and I don't call SJ/C+ ODD SO same to some landworm with FD2.

    Its a lower version of Shikami. I miss him badly.
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I've used the Shikami a bit. He's hard to get mileage out of, but the higher MOD stacking helps a lot and the fact that he can get to threats who like to hide on rooftops does a lot for his viability. Against most targets, the Shikami's higher PH and "Templar" CCW is also better, particularly AC2s, Armoury doors and Supremacy's (I think it was) boxes. I'd also rate the Nimbus Grenades at higher PH better than E/M Grenades in this specific case.
     
  3. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Dont forget we got plenty big guns to make our opponent turtle in, swinging him freely..
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's possible to achieve that effect in JSA as well, but that doesn't mean either gets to move freely if your opponent realizes that maybe it's better to guard the flanks with ARO instead of trying to make a Maginot line. What the Hulang gains with FD2, the Shikami can sometimes take back in order efficiency simply by pretending to be Spiderman to get around firelanes - kind of like a slow Su-Jian
     
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  5. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    and which is pretty damn able with his movement skills, with a better position vertically.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That's what I wrote. However, it's terrain and opponent dependent if the Shikami is able to move forward or not. If he's not, he's still a very decent DZ deterrent - which isn't a glorious thing to bring "hunt my Keisotsu and I'll make you pay!", which is why I think Shikami doesn't ever make it out of mediocrity in terms of performance.
    I'm ambivalent about losing the Shikami. It doesn't do anything to my vanilla strategies, though for specific missions it kind of sucks. I don't think replacing the Shikami with something similar is a goal worth chasing, but if you do it better at least compare favourably.
     
  7. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    I disagree. That may be the case in JSA due to the lack of Long range Firepower. But in Yujing It's not a problem. Take out a Yanhuo and clean a path or use shaolins or Skirmishers to do it.

    Also I don't think Shikami is so bad BS equipped. Assault pistol is almost 2xSMG. backed up with ODD and 2 real wounds... it's nasty

    The problem of the Hulang in comparison is It's vulnerability on midfield. A single WB or a Skirmisher can peal him up. Specially Assault hacker skirmishers. And It's a pricey piece to loose on a 6-25 point enemy troop.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Uh... I did write that it's possible to achieve the effect of long range fire suppression in JSA as well and that the mobility problems didn't stop there? Haven't you guys ever heard of Blitzen and Missile Launchers? AP HMG? Heavy Rocket Launchers? Fire Assistance HMGs? They exist in JSA and can be used to great effect to suppress your enemy.
    They just suck at suppressing TO snipers in my experience.
     
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    And like the Shikami, it is extremely dependent on terrain.


    Agreed.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I’m thinking a bit more holistically with the Hulang. It’s not him, it’s the force. In IA he doesn’t have great support. I think he’s a bit better off in Vanilla and a more in Dahshat.

    Forward Deployoment
    I think one of the bad things with him is the Forward Deploy! Sounds bad but hear me out. Hopefully I can get this across. Since he lacks support, putting him out there on his own without camo/holo or anything else, he’s a big sore thumb of a target. He’s actually a great defensive piece. Keep him back in the -3 or -6 range of the enemy, in cover and suppression fire, and he’s a tough nut to crack. The Shikami is sort of the same. Neither of them are using their strengths. They both have great CC abilities that you really want to use! But as most of us know, CC in this game is a bit of a Red Herring. When you use the FD the mimetisim means little because you are in the zero or even +3 range of some weapons. He’s only 1W+NWI. The Shikami actually has a lot more to offer for only a few pts. More. If I played JSA I’d never use Shikami to go up and kill stuff in CC. I’d always take the Combi Rifle. His job is to take close areas and hold it. If something comes up that needs taken out in CC, great but otherwise it’s staying put. First he has true 2 Wounds, ODD, Can climb or jump to good positions and has an Assault Pistol.

    Competition
    But have competition for what they do. In IA very much so because of all of the high cost troops. In Vanilla it’s even more competition. I’d rather take a Daofei for an infiltrating HI, Guilang, even a Liberto has more uses. In Dahshat if I want a CC brute I’d take MrMurder or Saito. For infiltrating I have a much cheaper Hunzakut.

    Just to mention the Shikami, he also has competition, Ninjas are always good for slice and dice. For defense the Karakuri is now amazing!
     
  11. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I'm taking Super Monk to face a Gorgos today, any tips for doing that? I also have a Hac Tao to take out pesky ARO pieces before advancing and a linked Haidao (playing IA vs Tohaa) to cover him. Main concern are linked Makauls covering the advance (that's why I'm taking the Combi + LFT option: you outrange the HFT and plants don't like fire).
     
  12. descrii

    descrii Well-Known Member

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    A lu duan might be a nice complement for clearing an approach. Fast, good for clearing mines, HFT is scary for triads, carries a repeater to annoy the gorgos.

    If you can get close enough without sustaining a wound to the hulang, a double move into contact where you tank a pulzar hit is probably a good bet.
     
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  13. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Assault hacker zencha, or FO zencha.
    mark the gorgos with spotlight or FO. Preferable, this last one gaining it's back to avoid confronted rolls.

    Then use E/M grenades to inmovilize it and make a chop sue later

    It might be a good idea to use a liuxing to take out engineers first, because the E/M grenade strategy can suck-up most of your orders. It has only arround a 40% of success confronting on optimal conditions and 48% on spec fire
     
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