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I think the change to Total Immunity was a mistake

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hecaton, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Flash pulses were a bit OTT, especially spammed for cheap in my opinion, and they should be countered by something so that's good. Overall I think it's improved but not perfect. That said I expected and they could have added a couple more fluffy vulnerabilities (eg Dogs to Stun, E/M makes sense fluff and common sense wise). I always killed dogs with linked AROs and TR bots tho. Sun Tze is fine, he wasn't taken that often because (as mentioned) he costs a bomb and doesn't kill much. I dunno about Karakuri. 3pts is a decent price to pay though, and they're cool units to see on the table, along with being fluffy and faction appropriate to be hard to put down.
     
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  2. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    They are a robot give them vulnerability E/M, if robots in the 2 most technologically advanced factions aren't E/M shielded then why should the Karakuri?
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Any kind of consistency straight up died a long time ago. You only have to look at Invincible Army.
     
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  4. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Welp I did got a faceslap bitching about FAT2 B5; Lets play some games, and we will get some experiences to talk about it.


    Karakuris snorting off 3 HFTs with ARM 6 was shocking, TBH. Never met doggos after big TI reworks though.
     
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  5. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    What would have it cost more, if they get them armor 6?
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Same reason Karakuri can shrug off Monofilament weapons and Unidrons can't. Because CB decided Karakuri for reasons should be walking tanks and not Unidrons. We can also assume at the least the Karakuri not being vulnerable to anything was intentional from CB's behalf as they took the time to look at and manually adjust their profile with a price hike.

    CB largely doesn't give a shit about consistency. Take a look at monofilament being unable to touch antennas because no anti material trait yet mechanically being capable of slicing an Avatar in half.

    Gamewise, 1 or 2 HI units being immune to their traditional ammo counter isn't a problem because you're not over saturating and you're giving a unique option to one or two factions. But if you start handing it out like candy just because "well, logically because fluff" you're going to run into the problem of every time you try to buff a mid range faction with a unique piece of tech you instantly have the issue of needing to handwave or figure out why the fuck the E.I. or Pan-O or Aleph doesn't have that tech too.

    If you cave in and give it to those factions as well because "muh advanced faction lore" next thing you know every man and his dog has it and you've invalidated e/m weapons to @Nemo No Name's delight.

    Basically, it's too much of a pain in the ass to sort out.
     
    #26 Triumph, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  7. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    That's correct, but double at the same moment the armor is one. I wouldn't have a problem with either of them, but both are too strong and to cheap. 3 Points is nothing compared with what they get.
    Same thing with Mc Murder who got Berserk and got from Extremely Impetuous to only Impetuous on top of the TI buff for only 1 point.
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know why McMurder got all the extra buffs on top of TI, he was already up there in terms of efficiency he didn't need one. I blame Corregidor.

    On the other hand Karakuri deserved the buff, both from a standpoint of they pay too much for their stats and we all know that's true, and also from a factional standpoint of JSA as an overall sectorial is somewhat lacking. They're a CC oriented faction with no access to linkable Vis MODs and comparatively extremely expensive and limited smoke access and basically 0 infowar presence. Combined with lower than average BS on most units and SWC taxes on their TR bots and combat remotes I don't feel like the Karakuri are going to break the bank here by giving them access to a mid range Haris that can shoot and is hard to kill.

    The only thing that's going to change for most people with tackling Karakuri is you want to flank them now. Bring them down to ARM6, you could deal with that in cover before you can deal with it now with the same old HMGs. They, and the rest of the JSA faction have relatively weak long range AROs it's difficult for them to lock down long fire lines advancing closer to them is viable.

    Does this mean you get closer to melee specialists? Yes, but I find that only fair given how much of an outlier melee is in general and the fact that JSA actually really lack melee delivery mechanisms.

    I'm not saying it's you @Ben Kenobi but people who think Karakuri are going to radically change the game scape need a reality check.

    An unlinked plain jane no vis MODS BS13 HMG like a Yadu shooting at 32" at a Karakuri in cover has
    a 53% chance to deal a wound even at 9 ARM.

    Colour me unphased, that's not exactly impossible to bring down with brute force.
     
    #28 Triumph, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Was it manually adjusted or did the price of TI just increase a bit?

    And the HMG is now basically the optimal weapon for dealing with the things; other options thst were previously good, like Blitzens or E/Maulers, basically don't work now.

    Actually, I am kind of worried that CB looked at the fact that Karakuri weren't being run that much and buffed them thinking they were underpowered when they're not.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Manually. Sun Tze's 8 profiles didn't change neither did the non character dogs as far as I'm aware.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, the Dog-warriors' costs all went up by 2 points, and I think the Karakuri went up by a similar amount.
     
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Sun Tze didn't change. As far as Army goes I assume profiles are all hand data entry given that various factions get discounts on random shit like Hospitallers, Tarik, or the Su Jian all coming in undercosted or the fact that YJ doesn't pay points for LT2 unlike the other factions.

    @Zoe could shed light on that if they want I suppose.
     
    #32 Triumph, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  13. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    Actually all E/M weapons are still a perfect way to deal with TI.
    He can chose to roll for armour (i don't think i'm the only one who rolls 4 or less on ARM rolls) and take a wound or forgoes TI and risk the Isolation.
    It is not so straightforward as it may seem.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    One can assume that the player will take whatever is the most advantageous for him.
     
  15. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    That is the full point in an "Immunity" skill.
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Then saying that E/M is the "perfect way to deal with TI" is wrong.
     
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  17. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    A lot of people already say this to you, so please stop putting words never said in one other mouth.
    E/M is still a perfect way to deal with TI because it can still inflict a wound or isolate. Owner can try is luck, whatever he fails, i'm satisfied.
     
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    And allow Knauf to shoot plasma ?:P

    (really I support it, but CB made it the way it opens new can of worms ....)
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You might want to look up what "perfect" means and try again.

    I didn't put words in your mouth, I quoted you. Or did you forget your earlier post?
     
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  20. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Why do you think people would chose the B1 option rather than B2 DA+Shock? I suppose in ARO but Knauf sucks as an ARO piece.