I see love for the Hospitaller Haris, but what about the Teutonic? Yeah yeah, stop laughing already. This thing got an update so it might as well be looked at. Something like 3 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) 2.5 SWC | 113 Points Or: 3 1 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) 2 SWC | 102 Points We exchange an HMG for a Spitfire and downgrade Doctor to Specialist, but we can gain a mixture of skills and gear useful for an aggressive haris. Berserk, NCO, and shotguns are things we want, especially if we are going all the way into the enermy DZ, and Panzerfausts are another good alternative ARO too. I strongly think that the Santiago Killer Hacker or spitfire specialist are both damn good contenders for an offensive Haris. I quite possibly prefer the Spitfire over the Hospitaller HMG, which I feel is the strongest advantage of the Hospitaller over the Teuton.
I feel this list should work fine... on the merit that it is as generic and straightforward as it gets, but with its components being of PanO quality of straightforward stuff (and Dart is fine as she is). Some people have already pointed that out though, offering their ASA, Dashat etc. equivalents. I feel I can confidently do the same list in Bahram. Of course, some significant differences will be present (less power and durability, but some extra tools), but that's to be expected. I feel that what happened to MO can be classified as a loss of its former gameplay-related identity, and if lists like this one are indeed the most reliable way to play MO, then I can see why it is so. Anyway, good luck to you guys with your experiments. Good to see that you keep trying to figure things out.
I just thought about this for like 2 minutes or so and much to my astonishment, I have to agree. I can't actually think of a Haris team I've used, except for 1, that ever really was worthwhile for me. Hillariously, I can think of more Duo links that I've used to a much better degree than a Haris.
In MO or NCA, I'd have to agree that Haris aren't very good. VIRD has a good Haris with Patsy, Kamau HRL, and Varuna Machinist. That's two killers bringing a button-masher with them (and maybe even the ORC HMG + Kamau MSV MSR + Fusiliers Core for another big beatstick) In other factions, there are some really great Haris options, too, but PanO generally seems to be lacking good Haris options.
Off the top of my head, I can only recall these Harises ( Or is it Harisi...? ) as being decent-ish on short notice: The Harises in Ikari Company, barring the Druze Haris. MAF Kornak Haris. ISS Hsien Haris. DomaKuri Haris. DBS Haris. Hospitaller Haris. Patsys DIY Haris. Might be some good Nomad and Ariadna Harises I don't know of though. EDIT: I do not bother mentioning Tohaa since Tohaa is just a big batch of Wildcard Harises.
@Maksimas Bahram's Asawira Haris is also decent, what's with considerable toolboxiness it brings, as well as being one of not that many things in Bahram that can shoot straight. While I usually don't speak very highly of that one, at least it doesn't really suffer from "bringing rifle you will never use" syndrome you folks are talking about here, and like I said, HB isn't spoiled for good shooters. Finally, keeping your Core cheap (and thus secondary in terms of Active turn usage) is understandable since you will probably want some orders to spend on Fiday or something, cementing Asawira Haris in its role of a conventional attack vector and button pushers. Meanwhile, solo Asawira does not provide order efficiency of a link, their Duo doesn't always save much in term of points (can have up to 2 cheaper stand-ins instead of proper Asawiras in Haris, but not in a Duo), and becomes crappy shooter once it flies into Impetuousness.
Agreed. As I mentioned upthread, and like @Section9 said, I like Patsy's Haris a lot because it brings unique capability. I call her the Joan of Haris Teams, because of the flexibility and support she brings to them. With Patsy having NCO, her cost per Order is basically 18-19 points, which balances her limited combat capability. She Datatracks well, her Haris can do a huge range of Classifieds, and she's very good at carrying Specialists and a Kamau heavy weapon to key areas of the table. She gets much better with link bonuses (SMGs and Flash Pulse are grateful for +1 Burst.) I really like with her with a mobile Burst 3 Heavy Rocket Launcher... It's a good platform for getting template hits the enemy wasn't expecting. In general though, I think that buying two "standard" profiles just to add +1 Burst to a heavy weapon isn't great. The points spent on those two supporting Haris members can pretty much always buy a Camo Specialist, more Orders, more firepower, etc. that are much more effective. I always though this was true in Acon, with the Bagh Mari link, so liked to use solo Bagh Mari gunners instead of the popular Bagh Mari Haris.
The problem with Haris teams in general is that you are dragging around more models to be killed, whether through hidden reactive pieces or when your turn ends. The benefits of a haris are order efficiency bonus burst The bonus burst can be good. But as soon as one model loses a face to face roll and goes down or is denied a face to face roll with a template and goes down, then the team no longer gets a bonus and you've got two models with their asses potentially hanging out. I think the bolt haris can actually mitigate this by being relatively cheap and being able to litter the field with deployable stuff to help protect. 4 member teams have the benefit of 6th sense, so they are a little harder/more costly to take down. Order efficiency is a real bonus. Bringing along a second attack piece and a specialist are definitely worth while. The issue comes, most armies have some kind of TO or camo or AD attackers and specialists. I find that not being on the table, being a marker, and potentially placing a model where it is most useful at a critical moment are significantly more valuable than the added burst. As for order efficiency, is it better to bring the specialist and extra gunfighter along, or is it better to start those models where they are useful? Comparing the cost of elites (Bagh Mari and Kamau) to skirmishers (Nagas and Crocmen) shows a slight discount for the haris team. This is not always the case, but I'd still rather have Nagas and Dart or Crocmen and Zulus than a haris.
As a long time Tohaa player, getting arguably the best of the bunch in terms of Haris, I fully agree that the "duo" effect of multiple movement is by far the best part of the Haris rule. Bonus burst is only super relevant on a few things, like smoke grenades, or for overwatch ARO which want a five man team. Taking a combat unit and a specialist together is a roundabout way of achieving what I consider to be one of the best things in infinity - a good combat specialist. These are few and far between (unless you count the ubiquitous "FO skirmisher" who isn't all that great at combat but does kind of fit the bill), and often have downsides (looking at you De Fersen) The third dude is only relevant if he brings a different set of abilities to the link, and even then, theres a strong argument that their inclusion is increasing risk (loss of three troopers if attacked) more than it increases reward (more capability, +1 B). I generally find that if a Triad is attacked in CQB, then if they are attacking with a model strong enough to be worth attacking with, likely they will all be destroyed. So the third trooper is at least some of the time, just another move+shoot order.