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I F’ing called it!

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Zewrath, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    People already told you why it's superior. I hate to repeat what they said.
    In vanilla there is really no need to take Bandit, which is what where you are using it judging from your post. Both Zero and Spektr are better choice in any role you aim to achieve with Bandit in vanilla. So you are kinda doing it wrong. Like eating at McDonald's, I wouldn't step a foot in that place.
    In Corregidor, hell yeah go for it. Just don't take any profile not armed with Light shotgun and you're good. KHD is best option because it gives you options to respond to both hackers and big stuff you would want to glue ( not to mention this make you efficient at better range bands ), for a great price. BSG one is stuck to reacting in 0-8 range basically, he has E/marat he needs to reveal to deploy and short range BSG. Sure he has his uses, but KHD Bandit can do more, for less points.
    Specialization is the key when you play your regular opponent who plays one army and you want to make a list just to stomp him. If you are making tournament list, you want to have diverse options. And KHD Bandit can cover multiple threats Corregidor list might face, for a good price.
     
  2. Stormygeddon

    Stormygeddon Well-Known Member

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    "Yuan will do fine"

    The pose really makes this model although I agree with the sentiment that I wish they'd stop releasing hackers. I don't like painting their visors, I won't speak for other people but I find them tough to paint. They design such great helmets for units and then clunk it up and obscure it with that tacked on thing. Absolute boss of a pose though. Might be time to bust out the jeweler's saw again.
     
  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    It isn’t though. Already debunked that. Improve.
     
  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    ITT: People offering each other arguments that boil down to "It's bad, git gud" and pretending they are arguing anything.

    It's a choice between mauler and khd. That's basically it. No need to make up anything else, imho.
     
    HotFreshTofu likes this.
  5. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    You didn't debunk anything. You just dismissed it. There is a big difference.
     
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  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Read my former posts.
     
  7. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

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    @Zewrath , @LaughinGod and any others in the debate about the bandit. Can you please take the debate to nomads subforum or PM please.
     
  8. Retblade

    Retblade New Member

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    I was not a fan of the poncho when the dossier was released, but this sculpt changed my mind. I will be definitely getting this model.

    That said, I am a new player, and aside from differing range bands, am still getting a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the different weapons. Is the main reason most folks are favoring the SMG profile due to the anti-personnel mines? Or is the SMG just better than the boarding shotgun for what the Zencha wants to do? Cheers to CB for changing my mind on ponchos!
     
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  9. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    1) SMG, king of CQC, at your disposal. Armor breaking, Shock delivering, bring it. Combined with C+ he's one heck assassin. Believe me.

    2) Mines on 1.99W Skirmisher - who can infiltrate - are able to ruin one's day.

    3) DEP serves as assassination run weapon, or surprise gambit shooting.

    + Camo Infiltrator. once more.

    ALL these packages are available in 34pts. I call that a steal.
     
  10. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    All the things that ObviousGray listed, plus the fact that is a general consensus from community that SMG is undercosted. Anything with a SMG gets far cheaper than with a combi, which allows to lower the cost of Zencha to affordable levels. That being said a boarding shotgun on a infiltrated camo troop is always a hell, specially in a troop with C+ which thing opens the option for interesting attack vectors. But given the cost and the vulnerability to shock damage (mines) must be carefully.
     
  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    SMGs also get suppressing fire, which is another great bit of utility.
     
  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    You know the system is fucked when a cheap as chips SMG has more threatening suppression fire than a HMG.

    SMGs should lose all special ammo and drop to damage 12.
     
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  13. Chaserabinov

    Chaserabinov Member

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    Good point. Nowadays SMG`s use regular pistol ammunition - they are just capable of firing a lot more of them than pistols. It should be similar in the XXIIIrd century - unless there is some lore we do not know about ;)
     
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  14. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, at very least I wouldn't mind if SMG was to lose advantages over combis at in 0-8" rangeband. If anything. Not sure if it also needs that -1 DAM though.

    Considering aforementioned lore reasons, you could say it's Assault Pistol ammunition that is also DAM 13, but Normal.
     
  15. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that's what Assault Pistol is, though I think it was supposed to be more of a machine pistol. That has DAM 13 for some reason.
     
  16. XPerson

    XPerson Member

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    I guess that is something to do with Infinity weaponry system. Most of HS weapons, bar Ariadnans, are caseless. The bullet and propellant are stored in different chambers in the gun. so due to that, i can guess that HS SMG mags can store much heavier bullet, but because they also use less propellant per bullet compare to combis due to limited propellant tank, and due to their shorter barrel, it has shorter effective range.

    But at this rate, they sounds more like PDW than SMG.
     
  17. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Still its funny when you are able to tore a tin can, making even a TAG flinch when you shoot AP rounds on its back..

    btw wasnt we groaning about Zhencha AHD being gorgeous. Imma buyin it.
     
  18. XPerson

    XPerson Member

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    I think this is the case of story and gameplay segregation. Its like space marine armor vs las gun. In the lore, las gun toring space marine armor is impossible, but in game you still have a bit nice chance to wound one.

    Its the same as TAGs, which is basically a mini walking IFVs. In lore, combis and SMGs fire will probably gonna pling off or scratch their armor at best, but if we bring this fact out to the gamelay, they will be extremely powerfull and broken. In short, their vulnerability in gameplay is so that any other units can have a chance to look cool.
     
    #58 XPerson, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually more irked about the texturing on the armor than the poncho. Not sure what I'm going to do about that, either file it off or fill it.




    The biggest reason is just how cheap the SMG is (and that's for every model armed with an SMG, not just the Zhencha). It's ~4pts less than a combi, for something that is about 90% the effectiveness of a combi.
    • In Suppressing Fire, it's better than a Combi due to ammo options.
    • On a model that Infiltrates, it doesn't matter than the SMG is +0 from 8-16", you're going to be within 8" of most other infiltrators in a single Move-Shoot anyway.

    Further, the Zhencha SMG is just flat more versatile than the other two profiles. You have the Forward Observer/Flash Pulse for 8-24" work. You have the DEP for 8-16", and you have the SMG for 0-8". And Mines, just to screw with people, and make them absolutely hate you in Objective Room missions.

    Don't forget to play Tesla's 'Signs' (or sing the filked version, 'Mines')
    /Mines, Mines, everywhere there's mines/
    /Blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind/
    /Go here, don't go there, can't you see the mines?/
    :smiling_imp::innocent:

    Even if the SMG profile was the most expensive, we'd still probably prefer it over the other two!
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to disagree on this one.

    I've never managed to get 1 Burst weapons to really work for me, particularly not disposable (1) weapons. Had it been an E/Mitter or even just Contendet, then it'd been a different story, but only slightly because then you'd have a strong medium range ARO that you can spam in panic.
    As for the Mine, it's good, but it's not necessarily good enough to make up for the fireteam-punishing "no good choices" BSG.

    If the BSG was reduced to the same cost as the SMG profile, I'd have a hard time picking between them. I often miss template weapons with the Zhencha SMG. And yes, the Zhencha is already a tiny bit expensive (just like most Hackable units) and really doesn't need either of their profiles nerfed in any way.
     
    Zewrath likes this.