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How would you react to someone painting their miniatures as nazis or with confederate flags.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by Abd Al-Azrad, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. Abd Al-Azrad

    Abd Al-Azrad Private Contractor

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    Just curious.

    I mean what if it was known islamic groups like boko haram or isis?
    Black panthers?
    Golden Dawn?

    Does it make a difference?
     
  2. benn

    benn Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't pay any mind to it until they started spouting rhetoric or making inappropriate jokes. After that it's their fault if no one wants to play with them.
     
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Bleh, take it to the Kempeitai thread in off-topic.
     
  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Moving to off topic.
     
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  5. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    What did the Hermeticists ever do to you?

    This.

    Also this.
     
  6. itsuncertainwho

    itsuncertainwho Well-Known Member

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    I have no issue if it's contextually appropriate for the game.

    If they are doing it in Infinity, they are being a dick. Rule number one, don't be a dick.
     
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  7. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    If it made sense within the context of the game, I'd be fine with it.
     
  8. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I would not play with someone who supports Golden Dawn, any other Nazi group, ISIS, Boko Haram, the KKK, etc.
     
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  9. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    The question is painted in a historical setting? No problem.
    The next question is painted to be serious or painted as a satire?
    There are some great coat orcs out there inspired by german WW2 Wehrmacht or Adolforc from Scale 75 which are meant not to be serious and i would have no problem with that.
     
  10. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is far, Far, FAR larger than the mere symbols hinted. . .

    Suppose You play somewhere in South Africa and one of the Player is of clear Zulu / Matabele ethnic origins, and it clearly show off in its Minis (let's say a Nomad Force with a lot of Masai, or Pan-O Varuna with lot's of Kamaus, or even more sensate Haqqislamite all painted with very dark skins). . .

    On the opposite side there is another Player, of Afrikaneer Heritage, fielding a Druze Bayram Security force (all Mercenaries with a long list of Atrocities in the Gameworld Universe) but with clearly a painting palette hinting to "Free Boers Outriders" (such as the evil "Cyber Agents" of the movie Elysium). . .??

    Those will be historically accurate figures, linked to the VERY past of the two Players, BUT that no more than two hundred Years from Now, gladly massacrated the other side, Civilians comprises. . .

    . . . . .

    There are not YET Finnish Heritage Infinity miniature (notwithstanding the good ideas advanced by @Stiopa in a Pan-O Thread) but should one field a "Svarhalheima Force" full of Nisses and Jotum T.A.G.s all decked in the regalia of the "Kalevala Poem" and the adversary is fielding an Ariadnan Kazak Force, all painted in the garb of the "Black Hussars" (the Tsars "Elite Shocktroopers" that tried to raze Finland to the ground for CENTURIES !!). . .

    I think is an idea of Intent, and the very idea of WANTING Knowingly to offend, shock and awe th other Players, or it is a misguiding error. . .

    Once I saw images of a Warhammer 40.000 "Urban Apocalypse" Scenery when Two "Imperial Guards" Armies facing off in the "Ruins of New Stalingrad". . .

    One was clearly Valhallans made like Red Army and the other was a mixed Wermacht "Panzergruppe" with the Imperial Commissars bedecked in "S.S. Totenkopf" Regalia, all EASILY obtainied WITHOUT CONVERSION from the "Death Korps of Krieg" boxed sets. . .

    . . . . .

    As for proper Infinity Miniatures, don't forget the Ariadnan Desperado Bikers that have the CONFEDERATE FLAG painted in the Bike Chassis on Official Concept Dossiers; surely a nod to the many "White Supremacist" Biker Gangs that roams the Southern States of the U.S.A. !!!
     
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  11. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Personally I would not care much or at all, context is the key to everything and lacking context is the biggest error one can do.

    Why they are painted that way? ectr ectr. for example as it has been touched the confederate (army?) flag, it is a symbol that has two entirely different meanings one inside USA and one outside USA and the meanings they have are not aligned at all.

    Frankly for somebody not living in the USA the uproar about the flag, prominently displayed in american media we have consumed the past 40 years as a proud symbol of the USA, was buffing at best, I can understand the context of it having research it, but came as a huge surprise to most of us because it simply does not mean to us what it means to the people living there, quite understandable really, same goes for most of the cultural symbols from one culture to the other and this is why, for me, as I said elsewhere, what is offensive is entirely subjective.

    Coming back to the discussion at hand context is the key, why is an important question and by looking at something it is easy to make a fast and wrong conclusion, one can be a race supremacist, it could also be a troll making a statement and a mockery of the subject at hand, it could also be somebody who is oblivious to the meaning, context is important.

    So for me seeing an army in a particular symbology is indifferent, I really do not care about symbology without context, I know a guy who plays only Japanese in every wargame and goes full rising sun ectr on all his miniatures, he is not a Japanese supremacist, he has but the slightest touch with Japanese politics and ideology (so almost oblivious), he simple loves the old samurai movies and shows it that way, he can be seen as offensive but frankly he is not and he is buffed if anybody thinks he is offensive because he does not make the connection and will not make the connection even if it is pointed out to him because he does not see it this way, on the other hand I know a guy who is christian orthodox purist and all his armies are connected with his ideology and religious purity and he pushes it hard even to the extend of making a grey knights army converted to orthodox knights, with full Jesus and saints fresco on vehicles ectr, while he is not seen as something really odd (odd yes really odd no) in a mainly christian orthodox country he is a religious supremacist and he frankly he is offensive, context is the key, I cannot be offended by somebody who does not connect symbols with ideology and I will not be offended by symbols alone, I will be offended by somebody who makes the symbols because he makes the connection.

    Now since "golden dawn" has been mentioned and for most should be a relatively unknown term, it is a pure and honest fascist and racist "Greek supremacist" political party, quite old really but it has recently raised to prominence here (because of the complex economic-political situation) , they call them a Nazi party, I would not call them Nazi because they do not have the Nazi ideology even if they comically try to emulate them in salutes ectr. I find them quite insulting because frankly Greeks were never racists, chauvinists (in the proper old meaning ei "our culture, country, history is definitely superior to yours") sure, they still are, but racists never, it never mattered to Greeks what colour skin you have or were you were born (logical for a culture of traders and raiders that are so dispersed) but to be Greek (and that means speak Greek and behave like a Greek) a big reason why we have so good assimilation in our country on second/ third generation immigrants, having a bunch of idiots advocating about Greek genetic purity is both laughable and insulting, on the bright side I am quite happy to see that people behave to people speaking Greek and behaving like Greeks are treated as Greeks by the majority of the population regardless of skin colour and place of birth.
     
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  12. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Came in to post this.
     
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  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind someone painting their armies with those kind of symbols if they are representing those troops in a game, and the game does it appropriately, and they don't fetishise their nazis/ISIS/IJA/whatever guys. I mean, if you play a Victorian era game with British Riflemen in Africa, hey they committed hideously brutal acts. If you play an ancients game with Romans, they exterminated the Dacians, killed thousands of Gaul men, women and children etc etc etc. History is full of horrific shit. We play wargames, and that's okay. Just don't fetishise it. Don't start wearing the uniforms or being an apologist or defending your troops as actually heroes or whatever.

    Incidentally, on a personal level? I would struggle to play Waffen SS in Flames of War. They killed a lot of innocent people in support of their disgusting ideology, and I know it's just a game, but that shit also happened in real life, and it wouldn't sit well with me.
     
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  14. taylor

    taylor Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Oh geez. Now I'm laughing. I really did think that the original poster was talking about the hermetic occult order who once had Eliphas Levi and Aleister Crowley as part of its ranks. Then @Pierzasty made a comment and I thought there was really was something I was missing. Thanks for clearing that up for me, @psychoticstorm

    Just so people don't think @Pierzasty and myself are crazy... here is a link.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn

    I totally forgot about the Greek party using the same name.
     
  15. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    Now I want to see an Ork army modeled after the caricature not-Nazis from Metal Slug.
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    OP: context is everything. All things considered, I wouldn't even notice the army in front of me uses an historical color scheme (unless very recognisable flags are there, that is), and frankly I wouldn't care much (I'm there to play, not to analyze my opponent's color scheme, even if that scheme can tell me something about him/her). However, if whoever is in front of me is more interested into giving a speech instead of playing, I can always call for a judge in order to complain because either losing time or trying to make me lose it with inappropiate and provocative themes. Same as if some pornography were to be placed in front of my face, frankly...

    Kromlech has some... well, they are just WW2 german-styled orks XD
     
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  17. leigen_zero

    leigen_zero Morat Pacifist

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    We've got metal slug sprites modelled after orks, that's a pretty good start:
    [​IMG]
    (https://steeljoe.deviantart.com/art/Pixel-WAAAAAAAAAgon-644482364)


    Personally for me it's all about context and intent, I don't play historicals, but if I did and in say a WWII game someone played an accurately modelled and painted Japanese force then that's fine, but if the player started trying to convince me the real-world force they were playing with were nice people that did nothing wrong then we'd have a problem.

    Also, regarding the confederate flag on the desperado, please bear in mind that outside the US, particularly in europe, most people know little of it's symbolism, I would chalk this one up to 'didn't do enough research' more than intent to cause office
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @leigen_zero Speaking as an American, though, the use of the Confederate flag in that context would be pretty accurate to how the people who do use the device do so. It's one of those things where the people who are against its use say it's a symbol of oppression and a pro-slavery identifier, and those who are for its use say that it's merely about Southern regional pride.
     
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  19. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Weeelllll...

    I wouldn't be against it, because I would be the guy playing the army. My Tunguska Nomads specifically.

    Çetnik Kriza Borac, Ustaçe Grenzers, something atrocious and Romanian on the Securitate, something horrible and Hungarian on the Szalamandra, still not sure about the Spektrs, horrible greek or bosnian imagery I guess. I may have to move ourside the balkans with how many new troop profiles Tunguska will get.

    The choice on horrible far right symbology was made because trolling Nomad players who go on about freedom and free freedom freedom sounded like a funny idea.
     
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  20. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    Honestly? I wouldn't give a damn until he started saying he wanted to gas me and my jewish ancestry.

    They're pewter figures, they can't hurt me (unless thrown or strewn about the floor like caltrops).
     
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